Oh need opinons on immigration

[Cat118!]

Ok ok not to make this a war thread.
But I am writing a paper on illegal immigrations and would just like to hear ideas of a solution....or if you think there is not a prob.....or what needs to change............so on...thoughts please


ok carry on

[mtnairlover]

Problems? Lots.

First, lots of people come to this country because it's the "Land of Opportunity" and the immigrants take jobs that not many Americans would...migrant workers comes to mind. This in and of itself isn't necessarily a problem. What might be a bigger problem would be the fact that a lot of migrant workers tend to send their money home, rather than spend it here. Sure they need a place to stay while here and food to eat and clothes to wear, but they also live with several families to a home/apartment. The bottom line is even though farmers can make money, the money that migrant workers make doesn't completely stay here.

Ok, so another problem...migrant workers have children and they are expected to be in school. Many of them don't speak the language. So, if the school and district can't provide enough bi-lingual teachers (public education is already short-funded), then the school(s) lose out on more funding because they don't meet NCLB standards with poor overall test scores.

Ok, so I'm speaking negatives about migrant workers. Here's another angle...look at all the good that comes from migrant workers. Our farms are harvested and that does create product and money for the farmers who in turn buy the seed they need for the next harvest, as well as the fertilizer, the machinery, etc. Many farmers see their migrant workers as a great aid to their existance.

How about looking at maybe immigrants who have contributed to more than just the farmers of our country. Like are there any who have had major scientific breakthroughs while here in America? Are there any immigrants who have come to this country to escape political tirany only to do many good things here?

I can find more, but that's it for now.

[mtnairlover]

3 websites with info on illegal immigration, as well.

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2006_...ges_better.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration

http://www.cis.org/topics/illegalimmigration.html

[RCStylin']

Illegal immigrants are humans, too. I would do the same exact thing if I were in their situation. That being said, I don't think we are handling it correctly as of now in this country. We should give them citizenship automatically if they come here so we can tax them. More tax = more money for education (both teaching them english and teaching us spanish).

Change happens. Peeps who think we should build a fence should take their head out of the sand (or their ass). It's not gonna work. They're gonna come over in droves no matter what you do. Building a 3000-mile fence and manning it is a pipe dream that's never gonna happen. Especially since the republicans aren't going to win this election

Think about it...if you lived in a shanty hutt, had to eat dirt because you have no money, and you were staring at your wife and children starving every day, what would you do (don't say get a job, because there aren't any in poor areas of Mexico)? You'd cross the border and take your chances. It's gonna happen...it's the humanitarian steps the U.S. takes after it happens that's gonna fix it.

Please...someone justify the fence so I can have a good laugh!

[Big-J]

Build a fence!!! They took our jobs!!

[Cat118!]

so what would you guys do as a solution... the free money ...the free health care... the jobs that they get. If you were Prez what would you do to start putting order in it?

[ihavealegohead]

Ok ok not to make this a war thread.
But I am writing a paper on illegal immigrations and would just like to hear ideas of a solution....or if you think there is not a prob.....or what needs to change............so on...thoughts please


ok carry on

Here are a couple of unpopular ideas for your paper -- but easy to make an argument for:

Educate them, keep them healthy. Not doing so would be more of a drag on society then letting them fend for themselves. Can you imagine a few million immigrants in Denver who have never been immunized? It costs more to fix them later then it does to get them healthy after they have a life threatening illness.

If you want to stop the floods if immigrants coming into the US: Eliminate the conditions in the country from which they come that causes them to leave in the first place. Invest in Mexico, eliminate crime, bring crime families down, etc.

[Bebop]

I think Robin Williams had one of the best solutions. Pull our troops out from every country that we are in (they don't want us there anyway) bring them back here and put them on the border and give them orders to shoot people crossing on site.

[Mental]

Immigration is a multifacedted problem like any other issue facing this country. The notion of a single solution such as "arrest them" Build a fence" or legalize all of them is stupid and short cited.

It was alluded to before, living conditions suck beyond most of our capacity to imagine in sections of Mexico. They suck so bad these folks are willing to risk their lives to cross the boarder. Wrap your head around that, you are so destitute that the possibility of death is not a deterrent. Those folks die from exposure, attacks, and smugglers leaving them to die in railroad cars.

Now, that death is not a deterrent, you can bet being here illeagally is not one either. But it does create an enviroment wheer the less scrupulous can take advantage. Who is going to rat out a drug dealer child protitution ring or habitual DUI offender in a community full of illeagals? So we are left with pockets of population where the immagrants we don't want can hide and flourish.

An issue of this magnitude requires a multi pronged approch. First we have to work a plan to allow for those who are here working hard to attian legal citizenship. It cost several thousand dollars to do the process and that needs to be much cheaper and streamlined. The idea that was propsed about providing proof you had been working is a good solution. 2nd it needs to be easier for law biding hard working Mexicans to enter this country. By accomplishing these two actions, you will reduce the flow of illeagals across the board, which is the only way pt #3 can work. Secure the boarder. I am not worried about a laborer who wants to come here and work. I honestly don't care if they send money home. But what does scare me is the vast unsecured board. Some esitmates say that 275,00 NON-Mexican illeagls have crossed that boardder. Of the 6 terrorist that were planning to attack Ft Dix a few years ago, 4 of them got in that way. When all of the workers can come here easier, then you can make a sfae assumtion those crossing are not coming to do good things and enforcement can get a lot more agressive becuase the chance you are engaging someone with deadly force that is a real threat goes up. That will alos allow these newly legal immagrants to police their own community and purge the dangerous members.

Anyone who feels that the hispanic influence is ruining this nation needs to look over the list of KIA's in Afghanistan and Iraq and see how many of thrir names end in vowels. Furthermore, if you can't cite what tribe you are from you need to remember you are a decendent of an immigrant and at one time you were considered the problem. Irish, Germans, Scandinavians, Asians etc etc etc, they all had their big movements into this country and changed the way we do things.

Anyone who thinks they are ruining our economy needs to be prepared to pay $5 for a Tomato.

Finally, and I have said this to everyone who will listen and a few that won't.

Mexicans will save us all.

Consider every aspect of a Islamic Fundalmentalist Nutcase (not a true Muslim, just the extremist). They have no family (wife and children) Thay hate our way of life. The believe Christianity is evil and the Pope is the devil. They don't wish to work, they protect nothing and cite nothing but pure hate. Take any aspect of what they believe and what they do and the polar oppisite is a Catholic Mexican. Not a marker eyebrow troublemaker, but a true conservative matrirchail Mexican. They believe in family, the sacred power of La Familia. Mothers are the most powerful members of a family, not kept in burkas and have acid thrown at them when their face is exposed. They believe in hard work and honest pay. They believe in education and making life better for their children. They are patriots and join the military in droves. They believe in God and country. They have family dinners and celebrate holidays. They dance and drink and embrace the joy of life.

When it finally comes to us or them, I want as many of these Mexicans on our side as well can get.

But thats just my opinion, YMMV.

So not only do I want to allow them here, I also want forced deportation of 5th generation welfare scamming breeding 7 kids in a trailer park who refuse to work. But thats where my theory gets a little extreme.

[asp_125]

They come here quietly and next thing you know they are working alongside us, taking our ice rinks, and passing on their foreign customs like poutine and hockey and saying "eh"....



Speaking as an immigrant from the great white north, I disagree with instant citizenship or citizenship by occupation. If they came here illegally they need to go through all the hoops to become legal first before getting citizenship.

[puckstr]

I think Robin Williams had one of the best solutions. Pull our troops out from every country that we are in (they don't want us there anyway) bring them back here and put them on the border and give them orders to shoot people crossing on site.

That goes for the CANADIAN border too

[jimwallace]

well i have to say rcstylin is partly right but also partly wrong. here is where he is wrong. if we give them automatic citizenship what makes you think they will act as a u.s. citizen. the problem with that is that many of them love mexico more than america and will still do the same thing they are doing now (sending their money back home). you are right about what would you do though. i know i would do the same thing. ...... here is my solution. keep illegal crossings difficult (a wall wont stop it so no point in trying) but we can continue to make it difficult. the key step here is to make immigration more streamlined because those who do want to be citizens have to wait years and jump through so many hoops it is ridiculous. if we streamline it and make it more efficient then those who want to become american and a productive part of OUR SOCIETY will be able to do so.

[Devaclis]

I cannot sensibly post on this subject as I really do not know enough about the current immigration laws to back up my feelings. I think immigration is great. I think illegal immigration is wrong. You can either change the laws or enforce them. Right now, not too much is happening to do either.

[Mental]

That goes for the CANADIAN border too

You gotta watch them. Those sneaky canuks are trying to be Mexican.


Miss Canada 2008



Miss Mexico 2008

They even have a Miss Latina Canada Pagent.....

[pilot]

Solution: The United States of North America. We are so already intertwined.

I have the honor to work directly with both Canadians and Mexicans. Hard working and respectable. Just like us!

[I`m Batman]

The Great Wall of China... we can build something like that at the border and put snipers up there.

I agree with Dana... "I think immigration is great. I think illegal immigration is wrong."

[jimwallace]

i kinda like pilots solution also..........just take over

[Mother Goose]

Send whitey home!! They took my land!

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I really resent when people say that one ethic group alone is "willing to take the jobs Americans aren't". Sorry, but that's patent bullsh!t. My grandparents were all LEGAL immigrants, and as Americans THEY took those jobs. Hell, I took those jobs when I was younger before I got an education (NOT at taxpayer expense) and the skills needed to get a good job.

So, I'm FOR LEGAL immigration, dead set against ILLEGALS (not the BS PC "undocumented" term for what they really are) from any nation. Look at the crime the illegals are causing. Anyone that thinks otherwise is blind to the changes that have occurred in Bakersfield CA (and similar places), right here in Longmont, Denver, and Greeley etc. over the last 20 years or so since I lived here last. The mentality that gives them the feeling of entitlement to things we as legal American citizens work for is the same mentality that makes them feel above the law. And hey, if they do something really bad, they just cross back into mexico, and come back her within a week under a different name.

Then there's Bob (damn Kanadians)......but that's another story......

[Filo]

So much hatred, so little thought...

I say send back ALL immigrants (illegal or legal) going back three generations (if you were born before 1920 you get to stay) plus all their offspring. That will really change things. We don't need them anyway.

Right, I am heading off to California to pick lettuce at $0.01 a head. Later.

[jimwallace]

cycle monkey is right about the criminal activities. he forgot to mention the fact that if they are caught doing a crime then they usually are let go or are sent back to mexico with no real punishment for their crimes then they just come back over and do it again, because as a non citizens they are not subject to the penalties of our judicial system.

[Captain Obvious]

I agree on several points Mental made, however he is way off base with his "Mexicans will save us all." He is just saying that to get points at home. Immigration, like many other issues facing America, is not an easy fix, nor will one action resolve the issue.

Border security must be increased. Increased staffing and budget will help, but I personally think "The Wall" is an unrealistic solution. Sure, it worked for the Chinese against the Mongolians, but Mexicans are far more ingenious.

Immigration. Our current system is okay, however if all services were changed and functioned more like a private business, effectiveness and speed to be legalized would improve. Not saying make it private, but the bureaucracy of the system has made it (and many other govt. services) grind to a halt.

Deportation. I say let ICE gather up everyone who is ILLEGAL and load them into a large boat. Take them to the Northern tip of the Yucatan Peninsula and dump them out. After making several trips south and then north again to get back to the border, if they make it, they can become LEGAL immigrants. That is the kind of gumption and goal oriented people the U.S. needs, not people who want to drink free from the tit of the U.S. Also, it is stupid to issue citations to IILEGALS

Medical impact on the U.S. The estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care in 2004 in California was about $1.4 billion per year. This is due to ILLEGAL immigrants who used and did not pay for the health care services. It would be cheaper to build hospitals for uninsured individuals and send them to those hospitals. Sure, the care would not be equal, but what do you expect, you aint paying for it! The notion that all people deserve equal medical attention is silly. You get what you pay for. That would lower the cost on paying customers and allow people to spend their money in other ways, which will always impact the economy in positive fashion. Our health care system has enough issues, the last thing it needs is to give out over-priced services for free.

LEGAL immigrants welcome. ILLEGAL immigrants not. Follow the rules, work the system and become legal. And that applies to all nationalities. Yes, some of us are lucky enough to be born in the U.S. versus other countries. Well, some of us were lucky to be born able to run a 4.3 40 yard dash and get paid millions for playing sports. Luck of the draw, play the hand you are dealt.

[Captain Obvious]

I really resent when people say that one ethic group alone is "willing to take the jobs Americans aren't". Sorry, but that's patent bullsh!t. My grandparents were all LEGAL immigrants, and as Americans THEY took those jobs. Hell, I took those jobs when I was younger before I got an education (NOT at taxpayer expense) and the skills needed to get a good job.

Americans aren't willing to take certain jobs due to the pay. If these crap jobs couldn't find people to work for $10 a day, they would be forced to pay more and at some point, the pay would be high enough that Americans WOULD be willing to do the job.

Some of this is also due to the attitude of many people today that manual labor is beneath them. Apparently if you can't find a job, then you are not that "special" therefore, manual labor might be your destiny. The world needs ditch diggers as well, we can't all be president.

[Captain Obvious]

You gotta watch them. Those sneaky canuks are trying to be Mexican.


Miss Canada 2008



Miss Mexico 2008

They even have a Miss Latina Canada Pagent.....

Canadian, Mexican, who cares. I would love to go south of the border.