For the vertically challenged.....

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

.....dogbones, or no dogbones?

This topic came up between a few people I know some time back. Being long-legged I have never given it any thought, but my "professional" opinion after looking at the way the linkage was designed is that the dogbones should work perfectly as advertised, with no measurable effect on the ratio of swingarm travel to spring compression. The only thing I would say to watch for is contact between the tire and inside fender (and maybe footpeg-to-ground). I thought the idea of radically backing off the shock preload a much worse idea as it radically changes the forces needed to compress the spring.

Ideas? Opinions? Those that think dogbones are simply something you feed your dog please refrain.....

[Devaclis]

I installed dogbones on Sweeties SV650. I also dropped the forks in the triples up front. It ruined the way the bike handled. It also wore a hole in the undertail from wheel contact.

Shave the seat, grow some legs, or get a Kawi. If you have to do any of these things, you are a girl.

[Nick_Ninja]

I installed dogbones on Sweeties SV650. I also dropped the forks in the triples up front. It ruined the way the bike handled. It also wore a hole in the undertail from wheel contact.

Shave the seat, grow some legs, or get a Kawi. If you have to do any of these things, you are a girl.

And ride a Honduh if you are ghey

[asp_125]

Dogbones as a last resort. If you're close you can shave the seat and while it's apart, narrow or re-profile the width of the front. Often that allows enough room to get a foot down.

[Sortarican]

Short people shouldn't be allowed to ride motorcycles, or drive cars, or breed.

Problem solved.

[SaShWhO]

Short people shouldn't be allowed to ride motorcycles, or drive cars, or breed.

Problem solved.

+1

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I installed dogbones on Sweeties SV650. I also dropped the forks in the triples up front. It ruined the way the bike handled. It also wore a hole in the undertail from wheel contact.

Shave the seat, grow some legs, or get a Kawi. If you have to do any of these things, you are a girl.

I would think that the tire rubbing would be the main problem with the handling.

Honestly, I'd love to ride 2 of the same bikes back-2-back with and without the 'bones. If you lower the rear, you SHOULD lower the front (raise the tubes) to preserve the stock steering angle/rake/trail, etc. Simply totally backing off the rear spring preload changes what I'll call the the "effective" spring rate, and without a change to the springs up front, would tend to make things unbalanced.

If both the front and rear were lowered equally, it shouldn't affect the handling.

Interesting......

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Short people shouldn't be allowed to ride motorcycles, or drive cars, or breed.

Problem solved.

Hey now, midgets and dwarves the world over will take issue with that!

[Sortarican]

Hey now, midgets and dwarves the world over will take issue with that!

What are they gonna do? Punch me in the kneecap?

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

What are they gonna do? Punch me in the kneecap?

If you've ever seen the movie "Bad Santa", you know even a guy 3' f#cking tall can STILL punch you in the nutz!

[teamhypoxia]

Actually, the percieved limitation of seat height is mostly mental. It would, of course, be better for beginner to have both feet on the ground but you would be surprised what an experienced rider is capable of. When I started riding dirt bikes, I had some trouble. I can only put one foot down on my drz400. Then I went riding with a buddy and his girlfriend, both of whom ride ktm 525s. In order to put a foot down at a stop, the girlfriend has the back of her other knee and calf on the seat with her foot in the air. It looks pretty funny and might cause you to laugh until she roosts you on takeoff and you can't catch her on the trail. At that point, all my excuses went out the window, and I learned to do what I needed to do to mount and ride the bike.
To answer the question, I think that this is a better approach than altering the suspension and handling characteristics of the bike.

[MattTLS]

The geometry overall can get f'ed up pretty quick doing something like this. The front 'actual' rake and therefore trail as well are changed if just the rear height is altered. The swingarm angle will obviously be changed resulting in completely different squat/anti-squat characteristics. Any modifications done here should be in VERY little steps.

[Sortarican]

Another step that a lot of people don't bother doing is to re-spring both front and rear to the true rider weight.
(Cheap upgrade too at around $100.)
The average factory rear spring is usually 200+ lbs to allow for 2-up riding.
(The average factory front spring is around 150 lbs.)

If you're a 115 lb rider running a 200 lb rear spring you're never gonna compress it beyond a couple inches and never really get full use of the suspension.
Might as well be riding a hardtail.

Also lowering the suspension a bit for shorter riders shouldn't adversely effect the geometry too much (if done balanced front/rear)
and as long as they're also light weight they shouldn't have an issue with bottoming out.

[eklew]

Short people shouldn't be allowed to ride motorcycles, or drive cars, or breed.

Problem solved.

I am going to kick your ass next time I see you!!!!!

[merlin]

What are they gonna do? Punch me in the kneecap?

:: laugh :: No, but using your balls for a speed bag is certainly a possibility, Stretch.

Merlyn
-- Short, fat and funny-looking

[Tipys]

Well I had the a part on my shock grinded off to lower the rear of the bike so I could put my feet more flat on the ground when I first riding. I didnt notice any handling issue but I really didnt know about how it should feel anyway. With it being lowered is part of the reason I crashed at PMI because the peg contrated the ground before it should have. But now that I have bought a new shock and put it back to stock hieght if feels and handles a whole lot better.


Jeff just remember this guy is short too...

[Sully]

ahem... Someone is going to get punched in the nuts next time I see him !!


Back on topic - my bike has been lowered. Handles fine.

[Devaclis]

It handles fine for a GIRLS bike.

[Slo]

At my first race, Dirk had to help push me back out of our pit area since while sitting on the bike, I can barely touch the ground with race boots on.

On the new Kawi, it's even worse, with street boots, I can still barely touch the ground, usually gotta lean it over to one side.

For a newbie though, at least for a few months, would be a smart choice to lower the bike temporarily until they get the hang of things...

[Sully]

It handles fine for a GIRLS bike.

yeah, I know how much you like riding my GIRL...

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

It handles fine for a GIRLS bike.

Doh! Well, it IS for a girls bike, so.....

And, if the bike is lowered only an inch or so (as long as it doesn't rub), I can't see it causing any real change. I mean, I carry passengers on a fairly regular basis, and I'm sure that changes geometry FAR more than dogbones would, and in addition you have that extra 100+ lbs.

So, Sully, you put dogbones on yours? Did you raise your tubes? did you notice any major handling difference?

Agreed on the spring rate thing. If you soften the rear via preload, you should also soften the fron via preload if possible (remove any spacers), or get new springs.

[Sully]

yes, 1" dogbones and shaved the seat. My suspension is soft too

[Sortarican]

I am going to kick your ass next time I see you!!!!!

:: laugh :: No, but using your balls for a speed bag is certainly a possibility, Stretch.

ahem... Someone is going to get punched in the nuts next time I see him !!

Wow, I could be in trouble!
I'd better stay outta munchin land till things cool down.

Jeff just remember this guy is short too...

Though he be small, he is fierce!