T's Noob Question of the week - Riding the Turns!

[64BonnieLass]

I have a question regarding faith in the turns in the canyons.

How do you guys do spirited runs, and take those turns so fast not knowing what is on the other side?

I can hold a line (ish - not so much on a good ADHD day), and I work on it every time I'm out. But when I am in a blind turn in the canyons, I just can't help but wonder if there is a deer, a car stalled, an accident causing the oh shit factor as I see myself going over the rear of the car. My mind goes there every single time. Which distracts me from my riding and focusing on skill.

Even at a slow pace I'm usually still around 20MPH over the speed limit in those turns. And most of you guys are WAY ahead of me.

I find myself being more comfortable in my abilities on the sweepers because I don't have to worry my lil head about what if's. Therefore I'm more confident in those turns and ride a wee bit better and stonger and faster then on the blind turns.

How do I get over it? Or should I? How do you guys do it? What is the faith in those blind turns at speed?

[salsashark]

Use the force!

[Nick_Ninja]

Before riding the turns at a brisk pace I practice my panic stops ---- in the turns.

You have to watch who and what is behind you though

[daemon]

quite truthfully....
alway's ride with some "reserve" in mind.
it has been said many times that you should not ride above your abilities.
this is true in many way's.

expect the unexpected.

for now you should consider your ability to react and react boldly.
there has been many ocassions where i had to grab the big binder to slow my pace...

take all the lesson's you can from seasoned riders and "never"...."never" ride above your own comfort level.

is this understood??

[DevilsTonic]

I think that you have to have a few screws loose for that Terri. I still worry about that shit in the twisties too. The only place I feel more at home in the turns is at the track. Even then, I have this self preservation mechanism that says SLOW the F down, neither you, nor your son can afford to have you dead today. The more I get to know my machine (and yes I'm still getting to know it after three years) the faster I can go, it's all about knowing the machine's limits and being comfortable with those limits and your ability to not push it past the limits.

That doesn't necessarily mean that I don't take the twisties faster than I should, but I'm still a lot more reserved than most. This year I'll be hangin at the back of the pack, cuz if I get any more tickets I'm gonna end up like Barn .

[daemon]

Before riding the turns at a brisk pace I practice my panic stops ---- in the turns.

You have to watch who and what is behind you though

true dat!!!!

tailgating tards!!!

[64BonnieLass]

I get that. (I practiced that one day in front of a most forgiving and kind crew) But how do you panic stop around a turn at 60 MPH and not hit a) the target or b) a very hard wall/ - the non-target?

No matter how good you are, you're gonna get screwed going around that turn with speed regardless of skill. No? Am I wrong here?

[mtnairlover]

Focus.

I dunno...I thought everyone does what I do...meh.

So, going on the notion that everyone is different when they ride in the canyons, this is what I do:

First...it takes time to get comfortable in the canyons. Before I started riding in the canyons, I was always the one driving in the canyons...day, or night. My ex didn't like to drive. I've been doing it since I could drive at 16. Back then, I had a Beetle. I loved driving in the canyons and snickered at the out-of-staters who had no clue how to drive. I would down shift and cruise in a group, until an opening and a passing lane would come up. Then I'd put as much distance between me and that group as I could...it's just fun for me.

As far as being on two wheels is concerned...well, what I trained myself to do from the time I was brand new to riding, was to find the furthest visible point in the turn and keep my focus on that point as it continued to change in the turn. Doing that gives me a little more confidence in the idea that if (heaven forbid) something would happen to be in that turn, then I'd have some sort of time to find a way to avoid a major mishap.

As I've grown more comfortable in the turns, I've been able to slowly add a little more speed.

So, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[64BonnieLass]

quite truthfully....
alway's ride with some "reserve" in mind.
it has been said many times that you should not ride above your abilities.
this is true in many way's.

expect the unexpected.

for now you should consider your ability to react and react boldly.
there has been many ocassions where i had to grab the big binder to slow my pace...

take all the lesson's you can from seasoned riders and "never"...."never" ride above your own comfort level.

is this understood??

Nice Mayo, I loved this comment. Damn skippy it's UNDERSTOOD. I never ride over my ability. And when I do, some lil angel on my should puts me back in "check" in short order.

There have only been maybe 3 people in the whole CSC who have EVER told me I was too slow. Like I freeking don't know that. But I really don't care to EVER ride with those people EVER again. Riding with good friends simply feels better to me.

My problem is that I DO expect the unexpected. My tire slides in 7, I puckered and came way down, when I really could have had way more fun. But I didn't know the twists of that road, and my tires coupled with mag chloride were worrying me. I don't know how you guys do it.

Deer Creek scares the ever living shit out of me. I just can't get up to speed on that road. Why? Cause of the freeking DEER! Ya know DEER CREEK...DEER!

[Matrix]

I will add to this that the pavement conditions of a canyon are also unpredictiable. Is their shade or sun? Is their gravel or oil? All of which is uncertain at the time of entry into a tight corner.
Given this a rider should use extreme caution and I know for myself this means somewhere in the realm of 50-70% of ability. Anything more then that for me belongs on the track where the consistency of the turns allowed me to push the envelope.

[Tipys]

I am slower on the street for some reason.


On the track going into turn 1 at pmi goes oh shit way to fast slow down then crap going to slow now. PPIR into 1 and throw 1 oh shit oh shit Im gonna die. Damn that was fun.

Then when I got comfrontable I crashed in 3 at pmi. I was like hell ya I got my knee down damn now peg shit that just happen. Damn it did I better get up.


I know my whole post is useless

[Snowman]

The term “Fast” or “Slow” is relative to the person who is riding only. No one can tell you that you are slow, because their reference of speed is not yours.

When I was racing karts I never worried if I was slow or fast. I went at a speed that kept me smooth through the corners. Speed came as a consequence of that.

Running the canyons are the same way. Go as slow as you need to be smooth through the corners. If there is something in the road like a rock, you can react to it allot easier if you are not already on the edge.

It’s not about how fast its about how smooth.

[mtnairlover]

somewhere in the realm of 50-70% of ability. Anything more then that for me belongs on the track where the consistency of the turns allowed me to push the envelope.

This is exactly what I've heard. I think it's a very good rule of thumb to use. I know I tend to be wayyyy overly cautious riding up in the hills in the winter time. I freak out when I see the white powder of left over mag chloride and I am always wary of canyon roads that tend to get mostly shade in the winter.

Summer time is a bit different for me and as my riding buddies will attest too, I've got more balls than I should have when I ride...but, I am no where close to other riders out there...those whom I've ridden with in the past and have helped me to improve my riding technique both on the track and in the mountains.

[UglyDogRacing]

If you're riding 20mph over or 60mph in a canyon turn(most I see are 35mph limit), you are riding at least 100% or more of your ability. You need to back that down to 75% or you will not be prepared for the unexpected. Whenever you ride in the canyons you need to anticipate a hazard in every turn.

[Matrix]

This is exactly what I've heard. I think it's a very good rule of thumb to use. I know I tend to be wayyyy overly cautious riding up in the hills in the winter time. I freak out when I see the white powder of left over mag chloride and I am always wary of canyon roads that tend to get mostly shade in the winter.

Summer time is a bit different for me and as my riding buddies will attest too, I've got more balls than I should have when I ride...but, I am no where close to other riders out there...those whom I've ridden with in the past and have helped me to improve my riding technique both on the track and in the mountains.

I missed one important part. Even if you’re riding at 50-70% you NEED TO ACT as if you are riding at 100%.
Case in point this fall I was being lazy into a corner at what I thought was about 50% ability. Then the ass stepped out (which has happened dozens of times at the track) and instead of holding my line and throttle position I panicked and managed to high side in what would have normally been a casual corner. Over confidence in this case was detrimental to my well being. haha

[mtnairlover]

Yeah...I guess I've never gotten to the point of having my tail end step out on me in a corner...but, I have felt that on the straight away....different. In the corners, I always tell myself to be prepared before going in and that's on each and every corner, but at that last point of no return...that point right before you hit full commitment, that's when everything just flows smoothly for me and I let everything else fall away (accept my awareness).

Oh and over-confidence? Yeah...been there, but all it takes is a self-check to put that away and just enjoy the ride.

[SaShWhO]

the Canyons are like boxes of Chocolate......................
....................you never know what you're gonna get.

[dirkterrell]

It’s not about how fast its about how smooth.

So true. In a race last year at Pueblo on the first lap I was behind a guy who was a little slower than me and Diego was in front of him. Diego was pulling away and I'm fighting to get around this other guy. I finally got by him on the brakes going into 9 and started chasing Diego. The harder I tried, the farther ahead he got. I was blowing turns left and right. Finally I said to myself "Slow down and do it right." After that I began catching up.

As for riding fast in the canyons, you have to give yourself a lot of room to adjust for the unknowns. I ride pretty conservatively on the streets. Too many unknowns to go hauling ass through blind corners.

Dirk

[mtnairlover]

Note:

A quick confession...

Even though I may have just said my riding buddies tell me I'm fearless in the canyons, like Snowman just said...speed is all relative. I am just more comfortable in the canyons than my pals and they're ok with letting me know it...sides, they pass me over and over again at the track.

It's all relative.

[asp_125]

A few of us who shall remain nameless (but who have posted in this thread ) have been up and down 7 so many times we know the corners in our sleep. On other roads I will dial it back even more since I am not familiar with the corners. Nevertheless, I keep that "what if" thought in the back of my mind; it's the angel on your shoulder balancing the devil in your right hand. Never ride faster than you can brake, never ride with the thought of keeping up or trying not to be the turtle in front.

The 3 keys are: smoothness, precision, and control. Smooth enough to not need to scrub off speed suddenly or throw the bike around more than you need to; overreacting upsets the balance of the bike. Precise enough to hit all of your marks all of the time, and always remain in control. If you rush a corner you will give up one or more of the three items. Most riders don't automatically become fast, they creep up to it.

As for confidence? Develop a trust in your abilities, in your tires, and a healthy respect of the road conditions. Know when you can hang it out a bit, versus when to back it down.

[64BonnieLass]

K! Great feedback. But how do you guys go on BLIND FAITH? A blind turn for me, IS blind faith.

Is an "ignorance is bliss" kind of mentality that you have?

Is it faith in your ego that keeps you going in your mind at that kind of speed? Do you just assume it's "all clear" and haul ass?

How do you hit those blind turns never knowing if your 75% or 100% is enough or too much to be safe? Or even better, within your ability - that you are 100% confident that you can handle it?

[Captain Obvious]

I have a question regarding faith in the turns in the canyons.

How do you guys do spirited runs, and take those turns so fast not knowing what is on the other side?

I think a lot of people ride well beyond safe limits on the street. Either they fool themselves about the actual safety margin, they over estimate thier abilities, etc, etc.

I admit fully that I have ridden beyond safe limits on the street.

We all view risk the differently and a many (esp guys) have a way of marginalizing it. I was slack jawed as I watched guys rail past cars over double yellows into blind turns. Asked about at the next stop and was given a bs excuse about being in control, etc, etc.

[Captain Obvious]

A few of us who shall remain nameless (but who have posted in this thread ) have been up and down 7 so many times we know the corners in our sleep.

But have no clue about the car making an illegal u-turn, merging, or just pulling out. Example

[mtnairlover]

K! Great feedback. But how do you guys go on BLIND FAITH? A blind turn for me, IS blind faith.

Is an "ignorance is bliss" kind of mentality that you have?

Is it faith in your ego that keeps you going in your mind at that kind of speed? Do you just assume it's "all clear" and haul ass?

How do you hit those blind turns never knowing if your 75% or 100% is enough or too much to be safe? Or even better, within your ability - that you are 100% confident that you can handle it?

Wow...now this is hard to answer. I don't know that I have an answer. Some people have told me I'm overly confident...too stuck on the idea of speed to realize the risk. My honest answer to that comment is that in their mind's eye, yes...and that's based on their experiences...not mine. My experiences are mine and I deal with things differently than others. As is true with everyone posting here and on this board. Everyone deals with things differently. But again, that's based on their personal experiences.

So, to say it's "blind faith" maybe it's true. Is it over confidence? If that's the way you want to define it. Is it stupid? I guess maybe that would be true if a person kept crashing in the turns...oh wait...no comments from those who've seen me do that. My crashes are not because of the turn...anyway back on topic...blind faith? Yeah, I guess that's what I'd call it...but, I use it based on all my experiences, which I mentioned in my first post here. I tend to get to know things and places and roads as intimately as a person can...that's not bragging, that's just how I deal with things and because I deal with things that way, I tend to feel comfortable in certain situations where others might not.