EXUP 99 R1 issues, need help

[sugarrey]

99 r1

Bout 1.5 months ago my R1 lost a ton of power and sounded different. Took to OTD and they found that the EXUP valve was stuck 1/4 open. So Eddie disconnected the cables and wired her open at my request so I could ride it.

It acts like a different bike with it wired open: Bouncy idle, shitty gas mileage, no power under 7k, hard to start and so forth. So I am starting to diagnose what exactly I need. Supposedly if the servo is bad I will get a 7K rpm and hold on startup, I dont get that so here is the next step:

I powered the servo straight to the battery and here is what happened, is this correct? Manual doesn't say how it should act? Is cable ok?:



This is the movement of the cables, or cable should I say:



Lastly, is it supposed to sit in there this loose?:




Any help given is appreciated....

[brennahm]

I think it would move both if the other ends were still connected to the valve "wheel."

Is the housing loose or rubber mounted. I wouldn't be surprised it it was a flexible rubber mount to protect the unit from vibration. Doesn't look as though cable operation would be influenced.

Was the valve stuck or was the servo malfunctioning? Does this mean you fixed the servo?

[sugarrey]

I think it would move both if the other ends were still connected to the valve "wheel."

Is the housing loose or rubber mounted. I wouldn't be surprised it it was a flexible rubber mount to protect the unit from vibration. Doesn't look as though cable operation would be influenced.

Was the valve stuck or was the servo malfunctioning? Does this mean you fixed the servo?

My thoughts: I think the cable that is not moving is weak and possibly defective. My understanding is that the servo works in a push pull fashion (im guessing) and that both cables should move (one in, other out) but I am just guessing.

It appears to be rubber mounted, but I thought maybe there was another fastening area that is missing or missing hardware, seems awfully flexible

Eddie (I think is his name) at your ship told me that the valve was stuck at 1/4 open, and that I would probably need new servos and cables. I am trying to figure out what exactly I need....Ugh I did nothing with the servo, same as when it went to OTD. What do you think?

[brennahm]

Let's assume the action we're seeing in the video is "push."

The servo was pushing and this would normally "pull" the other cable because when they're attached to the valve and the wheel at the other end of the cables it would pull the slack that you see forming. This is correct.

I was confused, you should still see the servo turning the other way and removing that slack anyway.

You would have to experiment and/or talk to someone who know's how servos work. Maybe reversing the direct batt connection will make it turn another way? Maybe it needs real info to cause the reverse action? I really don't know...

However, if the servo does need some kind of special signal that would mean you either have a bad ECU (unlikely) or a bad connection from the ECU to the servo...do you?

If the servo simply works with correctly applied voltages and the reverse action (pull) doesn't work, then just get a new servo. This is what I imagine to be most likely but no guarantees. See maybe if Steel's has a unit? Anyone else out there with the same gen R1?

After a quick look they seem to be pretty cheap on eBay (<$30) if you look. That's what I would do.

And again, there's no problem with the valve right? It's not stuck? The servo is the problem? If Eddie said that's what you'd need, that's about all I need to hear anyway...

[sugarrey]

Well Eddie claimed I MAY need a new servo and cables. But I am assuming since I dont get the error code for a bad servo, and I know it al least runs I am guessing one of two things. The cable that isnt moving is bad and is not doing its share of the work, thus causing the EXUP valve down in the exhaust not to completely cycle because the one cable cannot open and close the valve.

What I need to find out is when I turn the ignition switch to on does the servo normally run both ways or just one, that would tell me a bunch.

Does what I am saying make sense brennahm?

[brennahm]

Well Eddie claimed I MAY need a new servo and cables.

That may have been him being nice, or segueing into the option of wiring the valve, or him being pretty sure but not %100 and wanting to back himself into a corner. I would still put my money on it.

But I am assuming since I dont get the error code for a bad servo, and I know it al least runs I am guessing one of two things.

I DO NOT know this, but it's very possible that you only get the servo "code" when it's totally unplugged. It's obviously working partially and maybe it's not broken "enough" to trip the code.

The cable that isnt moving is bad and is not doing its share of the work, thus causing the EXUP valve down in the exhaust not to completely cycle because the one cable cannot open and close the valve.

I think that's exactly what's happening.

What I need to find out is when I turn the ignition switch to on does the servo normally run both ways or just one, that would tell me a bunch.

You need to find a same-gen R1 to be sure. Mine cycles both ways. I would GUESS that yours would do the same, but that's all that it is...a guess.

Does what I am saying make sense brennahm?

Yes it does. I would strongly urge you to pick up a cheap used unit (any bum can scrounge $30). That is a pretty inexpensive way to nail down what's going on.

Finally, unless a cable is broken, you just need the servo. It seems that the cables and servo are GENERALLY sold together, hence the phrase "servo and cables". You may end up having to buy everything, but again there's a cheap servo for your year on eBay at the moment.

Feel free to call if you need any help, the gf is out of town this weekend, I've got plans but am much more flexible.

[BHeth]

Hook those cables back up. Turn you ignition to "on", and the EXUP should do a self test. It should open and close. You will be able to see if it moves (use a mirror or friend if you don't have monkey arms), because you have the cover off, but normally you will hear this every time you go to start your bike. If you fire the engine and rev to 2K RPM, it should open partially. Once you rev over 6K, it should be open all the way. If it tries to open but can't (you can hear the servo trying but nada), make sure the EXUP valve is properly lubed and not sticking.

Here is a list of bikes that use your same servo (thanks BikeBandit!). If it's bad, post up in the wanted section to see if anyone has one sitting around that they would throw your way. If you go out to an R1/Yamaha forum, your odds of finding a free one will increase significantly, for obvious reasons. If you can't find a freebee, check the bay or Steele's like brennahm suggests. Between all the people that removed them, and all the YZF750s and R1s that got wadded up, there are plenty out there to be had.

1994 Yamaha YZF750
1996 Yamaha YZF750
1997 Yamaha YZF1000
1997 Yamaha YZF750
1998 Yamaha YZF1000
1998 Yamaha YZF750
1999 Yamaha YZF-R1
2000 Yamaha YZF-R1
2001 Yamaha YFZ-R1

[sugarrey]

This is my project today.

[sugarrey]

Hook those cables back up. Turn you ignition to "on", and the EXUP should do a self test. It should open and close. You will be able to see if it moves (use a mirror or friend if you don't have monkey arms), because you have the cover off, but normally you will hear this every time you go to start your bike. If you fire the engine and rev to 2K RPM, it should open partially. Once you rev over 6K, it should be open all the way. If it tries to open but can't (you can hear the servo trying but nada), make sure the EXUP valve is properly lubed and not sticking.

Here is a list of bikes that use your same servo (thanks BikeBandit!). If it's bad, post up in the wanted section to see if anyone has one sitting around that they would throw your way. If you go out to an R1/Yamaha forum, your odds of finding a free one will increase significantly, for obvious reasons. If you can't find a freebee, check the bay or Steele's like brennahm suggests. Between all the people that removed them, and all the YZF750s and R1s that got wadded up, there are plenty out there to be had.

On startup it turns one way. I removed the servo and the cables..ran it to 2k and it moved forward than back to home position. I hooked it up to the battery as the manual asked and it rotates as it should. I need a multimeter to check the rest and I am loking for that now....the saga continue. The EXUP valve itself moves great, very smooth.

[BHeth]

Does it open all the way over 6K?

You should be doing the 2K and 6K tests with everything hooked up. Did I read that wrong?

[sugarrey]

I havent hooked it all up yet, this morning I took the valve apart and cleaned it, now I am just focusing on the servo. This is how it looks getting bumped to 2k and 6k, without the cables:



I am going to be getting a multimeter tonight to check the resistance and voltage at the motor, but now I am going to reassemble everything and ill post up how it looks with cables and valves hooked up properly. Looks like it has a small hesitation while going back to home position on power down

[BHeth]

Shit, bud. It looks like it's working to me. Maybe the multi will show it's out of spec, but let's hope not.

You prolly already know this, but make sure the cables are lubed and adjusted correctly when you put it back together. I gave you a link with pics on how to adjust it in another thread. I'll find it if you need it.

I got my fingers crossed for you that somehow with all the messing around you did with it that you fixed it. Maybe it was gummed up or something. Always nice when stuff fixes itself.

Here it is:

http://www.cartestsoftware.com/fz1/exupmaintenance.html

[sugarrey]

Well I put it back together and it sounded like shit again. Rode it and it feels like its down 50 horsepower. Im getting little frustrated with it....Getting the meter tonight so Ill tear it down when I get home...Damn. I just wired it up again so its open. More on this debacle later.

Do you know when the valve is supposed to be open? Is it anything over 6k? Also, I actually had to switch the silver and black cable to get the valve to "HOME" where its supposed to be, there wasnt enough adjustment in the cable to do it the other way around. Somethings goofy.

[BHeth]

Have you checked it when it's all hooked up?

Unwire the EXUP valve, start the bike, rev to 2K and it should open partially. Rev to over 6K and it should open all the way. Everything needs to be hooked up. You already know the servo operates without being hooked up to the valve, per your last vid.

Unless the cables were already switched around, they should fit and have enough room for adjustment. If they are backwards it will be trying to close when it should be opening.

[sugarrey]

Have you checked it when it's all hooked up?

Unwire the EXUP valve, start the bike, rev to 2K and it should open partially. Rev to over 6K and it should open all the way. Everything needs to be hooked up. You already know the servo operates without being hooked up to the valve, per your last vid.

Unless the cables were already switched around, they should fit and have enough room for adjustment. If they are backwards it will be trying to close when it should be opening.

I took it apart again and I drew a diagram of when it was open and closed, that may have been my issue not knowing what I was looking for. Eddie at OTD was having a time with it also I heard from Henry.

I am going to help someone move and wanted to ride it so I put it back together...I promise you (since you have told me like 3 times) that I will put it all together when I get back tonight. Will also have the multimeter too if I need it.

[sugarrey]

I tried to hook the whole system up as requested and found out when the EXUP servo is at its "HOME" position, and then hook up the cables to the valve and it is no where near the correct position (where the opening on the valve lines up with the hole in the base. And there is not enough adjustment in the cables to get it there, so now WTF? What am I missing here?

It also seems as though the servo has way too much travel, it goes way beyond open it seems. Also, there is a test in the manual that has you put a meter across the two harnesses from the servo and to turn the valve and check resistance (should be anywhere between 0 and 7.5k ohm). Well turning the valve closed I got a reading of 1.5k and turning the valve open I got 15k (video)



And it says if its out of spec that the servo motor is bad, seems odd cause the servo appear to do all the right things (although sometimes it doesn't move when the ignition is turned on).

[brennahm]

So in summation...

The servo's resistance readings are out of range = BAD

The servo doesn't allow the valve to be in the right "home" position = BAD

The servo sometimes doesn't move when ignition is turned on = BAD

Eddie says the servo is bad = BAD

The only thing it does is move? That doesn't mean it's working. Dude, get a new one. You're going to kick yourself for going to all this trouble just to find out you need a new servo...

[sugarrey]

yeah I think your right. just dont like grey area's ya know. just add it to my shit I cant afford right now I guess. sux arse.

[sugarrey]

I noticed today that the cables looked twisted underneath the seat, so I fixed that:



Hooked everything up and adjusted the valve with the cable at the home position and this is what it looked like:



And I think it appears that it is working correctly in the video above. Rode it and it feels down about 50 horsepower and it sounds like its got the OEM original pipe on it, barely hear it and it bogs badly: This is how it sounds:



The I wired it open, and this is how it sounds:



With the exup setup above it felt like I was driving my girls 250 ninja, with the valve wired open it feels like a litre under me...

Does it appear that the valve is working correctly? Or do I have this thing all fuc*ed up?

[BHeth]

It looks kinda loose, but seems to be doing what it should do. Sorry, man. I really don't know. Only other thing I can suggest to check is from the page I linked where dude talks about this:

I have found that the valve is inclined to stick in the end plate housing bush, meaning that the bush is rotating in the housing rather than the valve rotating in the bush.

If this occurs, to release the valve from the bush, drift it out gently by tapping on the end of the spindle. Support the end plate casting while doing this and be careful not to let the valve drop onto the floor when it releases.

Short of that I don't know what you can do besides trying a servo that you know is good and see if it makes a difference.

[sugarrey]

Well at this point I believe that the servo appears to be doing its job, although I am just blipping the throttle, not sure under regular riding conditions. The differences in the exhaust not and power is what troubles me. Like the valve on the outside appears to be moving, but on the inside of the exhaust it stays in one spot. Is that what you are saying in your last post Bheth?

[BHeth]

Yeah. I am wondering if the servo isn't actually turning the EXUP valve. It sounds like your valve is shut all the time, so maybe the bush is turning inside the housing instead of the valve turning inside the bush like the guy says in the link. It seems like even though the servo is out of spec it is still pulling the cable at the right RPM like it should. WTF? It doesn't make sense to me. What would the new servo be doing differently? I don't know.

[sugarrey]

Yeah, it appears the servo is doing its job. Im gonna take it apart and examine really closely today.