Any thoughts on a Daily Driver?

[Mojojojo]

WRX/EVO

'04 350z

'03+ s2000



Honestly I'd like the z or 2k, of the two, but figure for CO weather it could suck.. Anybody driven those year round? I had a 240sx that would make it up mountains no prob with a little weight and snow tires.. Just not a fan of the wrx/evo body, but awd is great..

Also, this would be a used purchase.. so a little weary of turbo explody with high milage cars, and just not gonna believe a wrx or evo wasnt ragged on.. (well that goes for any of these..) I have known a couple of wrx motors to go boom when near 100k, figure that EVO's may as well.. Thoughts?

Any other car thoughts I'm all ears.. thinkin around 10-14k price range.. oh and howdy to CSC folks!

[sag]

well you already know rwd with good snow tires can make it year round but what about the space of the z and s2k? no back seats. the econo rockets would be much more practical but for what youre willing to spend i doubt you could find a very clean example of an evo or sti thats not ragged out. you could definitely find a clean wrx for that kind of money and there are plenty of non modded wrxs around not driven by 20 something year olds.

i have extensive experience with all these cars and out of that list and your price range id go for a wrx.

the VQ series motor is probably the best v6 ever developed though, have you looked at any g35 coupes?

everything aside, i would get a 3 series bmw. i work at a performance shop that specializes in bmw (we also work on tons of suby/evos and other sports cars) and they are great cars. they have horrible resale which is good because you could pick up a super clean low mile example for not that much money. when maintained properly they are pretty rock solid and part prices actually arent that unreasonable. most of our shop caged road racing bmws are 100k plus miles with minimal motor work. we work on a clients x5 thats sitting in amazing shape at 240k miles.

oh we also specialize in VAG cars and i would avoid them like the plague

[Wrider]

If you have the money I know for a fact this one wasn't ragged on.
Friend owned it. Only way he ever got into it was when it was already in gear and he hit the gas, then would let off before needing to shift again.
09 WRX

[Mojojojo]

well you already know rwd with good snow tires can make it year round but what about the space of the z and s2k? no back seats. the econo rockets would be much more practical but for what youre willing to spend i doubt you could find a very clean example of an evo or sti thats not ragged out. you could definitely find a clean wrx for that kind of money and there are plenty of non modded wrxs around not driven by 20 something year olds.

i have extensive experience with all these cars and out of that list and your price range id go for a wrx.

the VQ series motor is probably the best v6 ever developed though, have you looked at any g35 coupes?

everything aside, i would get a 3 series bmw. i work at a performance shop that specializes in bmw (we also work on tons of suby/evos and other sports cars) and they are great cars. they have horrible resale which is good because you could pick up a super clean low mile example for not that much money. when maintained properly they are pretty rock solid and part prices actually arent that unreasonable. most of our shop caged road racing bmws are 100k plus miles with minimal motor work. we work on a clients x5 thats sitting in amazing shape at 240k miles.

oh we also specialize in VAG cars and i would avoid them like the plague

I have thought about the g35, but not a fan of the body unfortunately.. (cheasy I know, but I've been surrounded by square brick tan trucks for a while.. except for Kuwaiti prados in the dirt.. they actually git up pretty good ) I have read the 350z('s?) have some oil burning issues with the 05-06 models, cant really grasp how common though..


VAG (like Vdub, etc right?) I only hear nightmares from stateside versions too, friend had an early TT, loved it, but damn that thing got the full use of the warranty!

BMW... I like em, just know very little about em.. are the xi's worth anything? I have always heard resale on BMW is pretty low, especially in CO for some reason.. I hear they can be tough to mod, something about upgrading say a 3 with M parts is not allowed unless you find a totaled one.. tru?

:edit: oh, as far as space goes, got a grand or so saved for a beater work pickup, figure something common on craigslist would be fine to fix.. and currently rug rat free.. so now or never right? lol

If you have the money I know for a fact this one wasn't ragged on.
Friend owned it. Only way he ever got into it was when it was already in gear and he hit the gas, then would let off before needing to shift again.
09 WRX

That is nice.. I know a lot of people dont like the new wagon but it is solid more my style that that wagon tho.. Unfortunately, heh, if I thru down that cash I would go a little more, and start a nationwide search for a '05 Vette owner down on his luck and roadtrip from where ever I found em (buddy pulled this with an 03, never thought about the fact the chevy flagship is gonna be a pretty damn reliable DD)

[sag]

yeah volkswagen automotive group, audis and v dubs.

dunno what you mean about upgrading with M parts though lol its your car you can whatever you want. tons of 3 series are all "M"ed out. they are very easy to mod, they have a huge aftermarket with tons of options. the only tough think about modding is gaining big power requires big bucks. but they respond well to the standard intake/exhaust/chip. but 5 grand on power with a bmw wont get you anywhere near 5 grand on power mods with an evo.

[chanke4252]

Unless you're 18 or something, tuner cars are not good options for a DD imo. honestly, i wouldn't buy anything used with a wrx/sti/evo nameplate on it at all. those cars are generally beat on pretty hard, and people do really stupid things to them.

i've had a couple of wrx's. I would not buy a current gen one. they have a whole lot of problems, mainly related to build/assembly quality. if i had to buy a mt subaru, it would definitely be a legacy gt, an 05-08. its slightly slower, but is equally moddable, a much better car overall imo, and people treat them better. the Impreza line, imo, is only fun to drive when you are hammering on it, which you can't do all of the time. the rest of the time it's really, really, painfully boring and uncomfortable to drive. i think the people who design the suspensions on those cars are drunk. if it's going to be uncomfortable, it better handle well, and if it's not going to handle well, it better be comfortable. You can fix it, to a degree, but the geometry is still substandard imo.

plus, the wrx/sti's are NOT reliable, sorry. they are built very poorly, and there are a HUGE number of (not necessarily minor) common issues that you are almost guaranteed to have. Probably won't leave you stranded, but I really don't care if a car starts every time if it is falling apart around me. I had more issues with my two new subarus than my family has had with their 4 ~100k mi VAG products combined. with VAG, at least a lot of problems are preventable, and the more frequent problems are generally more (sensors, software, etc), with a late MY subaru you're going to have a lot of stupid, relatively big problems because subaru wanted to save 2cents on rod bearings, or a weld that connects the clutch to the firewall. I drive an Audi now, and it's about 1/20th the headache that my subarus were, and handles a whole lot better on a much more comfortable suspension. If you get a german car, get one with a well documented service history that hasn't been in and out of the shop all it's life (because it will likely continue to be in and out of the shop). condition and history are more important than model and make imo.

i think rwd would be hard to live wth in denver, unless you are willing to get a set of snow tires, which i would recommend for any car in CO. if you had snows, it would be very livable, regardless of # of drive wheels.

I looked at G35's pretty seriously. Think nicer 350Z, with two more seats. the previous Z's and G coupes had common issues with their suspensions that would simply eat through tires, regardless of how they were aligned (the Z's were worse than the G's in this regard). I think the G35 sedan is a better option though. fewer problems, equivalent performance, and less childish for when you are on a date or something.

i think it really depends on what you want. Not all "cool" cars are "good" cars or dd's.

[thaitanic]

Unless you're 18 or something, tuner cars are not good options for a DD imo. honestly, i wouldn't buy anything used with a wrx/sti/evo nameplate on it at all. those cars are generally beat on pretty hard, and people do really stupid things to them.

i've had a couple of wrx's. I would not buy a current gen one. they have a whole lot of problems, mainly related to build/assembly quality. if i had to buy a mt subaru, it would definitely be a legacy gt, an 05-08. its slightly slower, but is equally moddable, a much better car overall imo, and people treat them better. the Impreza line, imo, is only fun to drive when you are hammering on it, which you can't do all of the time. the rest of the time it's really, really, painfully boring and uncomfortable to drive. i think the people who design the suspensions on those cars are drunk. if it's going to be uncomfortable, it better handle well, and if it's not going to handle well, it better be comfortable. You can fix it, to a degree, but the geometry is still substandard imo.

plus, the wrx/sti's are NOT reliable, sorry. they are built very poorly, and there are a HUGE number of (not necessarily minor) common issues that you are almost guaranteed to have. Probably won't leave you stranded, but I really don't care if a car starts every time if it is falling apart around me. I had more issues with my two new subarus than my family has had with their 4 ~100k mi VAG products combined. with VAG, at least a lot of problems are preventable, and the more frequent problems are generally more (sensors, software, etc), with a late MY subaru you're going to have a lot of stupid, relatively big problems because subaru wanted to save 2cents on rod bearings, or a weld that connects the clutch to the firewall. I drive an Audi now, and it's about 1/20th the headache that my subarus were, and handles a whole lot better on a much more comfortable suspension. If you get a german car, get one with a well documented service history that hasn't been in and out of the shop all it's life (because it will likely continue to be in and out of the shop). condition and history are more important than model and make imo.

i think rwd would be hard to live wth in denver, unless you are willing to get a set of snow tires, which i would recommend for any car in CO. if you had snows, it would be very livable, regardless of # of drive wheels.

I looked at G35's pretty seriously. Think nicer 350Z, with two more seats. the previous Z's and G coupes had common issues with their suspensions that would simply eat through tires, regardless of how they were aligned (the Z's were worse than the G's in this regard). I think the G35 sedan is a better option though. fewer problems, equivalent performance, and less childish for when you are on a date or something.

i think it really depends on what you want. Not all "cool" cars are "good" cars or dd's.

..subaru wrx/sti not reliable? where do you get your info from? i bought wrx new in 02, never had a problem. wrx is a sportscar not cushy buick. btw, wrx/sti is not only for 18 or something. its for anyone who want affordable AWD sportscar regardless of age.

[sag]

everyone has their different experiences but in general subarus are considered more reliable than audis. i would never buy a modded one though. we get a surprising number of stage 2 or so cars coming in with blown motors. oh and most subaru owners dont like to put oil in their cars so be wary. (subaru spec is to burn like a quart a month lol)

plus one on impreza comfort, im only 23 and am already grown way past the crappy interior. i may not even put my BBSes back on as ive grown quite fond of my boring 16in 5 spoke winter wheels lol. thankfully i have a wagon for practicality sake. subaru engines are loud and not smooth either.

ive had my 04 wrx for over 3 years now and i cant wait to get out of it. but it is bone stock drivetrain wise and the only thing ive replaced is a squeaky pulley. no other problems. (meticulously maintained though)

i would rock a legacy gt though for sure

[chanke4252]

i was primarily referring to the later MY's. I don't know a ton about the bug eyes or blob eyes, mainly from 06 on. the newer ones are kind of bad though imo. my 09 was definitely one of the top two worst cars i've ever owned (the other being an 06 honda). stuff constantly broke, and it always needed some sort of attention that i just didn't want to give it.

It's fine when you're 18 or whatever, and still enamored by the newness of driving. however, for someone who has had a number of cars, and expects certain things like their motors not imploding, or their pedal assemblies staying attached to the car, or to have a center diff that actually works, or not having constant boost leaks on a stock motor, or to not having the interior fall apart around them, it's just not a good car imo.

that said, it's great for back road fun runs, but that's about the only time I ever enjoyed the thing. it definitely wasn't a sports car though. I expect sports cars to actually handle well. The only thing that the WRX did that was sporty was go fast(ish) in a straight line, and have a crashy ride (somehow without handling well). It's a basic tuner car. I was happy to be rid of it.

the NA auto's, while somewhat boring, are better cars imo and have FAR fewer issues. we still have a 09 forester, and it's doing just fine.

I can't speak for you, but my experiences suggest that the differences in claimed reliability are VASTLY overblown (or even simply untrue in many instances).

[pannetron]

For a DAILY DRIVER, I'd go with the Evo. It's fun, gets around through anything winter has to offer with all-season tires and it has a useful trunk. Fact it, sometimes that's important!

[Pink Taco Hunter]

I SAY EVO "you could get laid in the back unlike the s2000" I do think the s2000 has colector potential though no money loss

[chanke4252]

S2000 is a great car. perfect size for the power, bulletproof reliable (one of the last hondas that I can actually say this about), amazing handling. i think it says something that it's still a competitive car despite not really being changed all that much from when it was first made. my uncle has one, i think it's a 2000 or 2001. he loves it. i don't think it'd be very good as an only car unless you don't need for your cars to have any extra utility at all (passengers, stowage, extra space), in which case it would be the perfect car imo.

[Ghettodsm]

I have had just about everyone of these above mentioned cars (sans bmw). All are great at what they do. Evo and Wrx can be a great daily driver. However insurance will be high regardless....reliability can also be harsh depending on previous owner and service. If you do get an evo make sure that 4g63 has had 60k timing belt repl and service made. I have had a fair share of dsm's & a evo mr track car. At any rate my recommendation is to look at what honda has to offer, especially the j30 v6 powerplant. Great power, easy to work on drivetrain along with decent gas mileage (i avg with 27mpg with heavy stop and go traffic) .

Look at the 7th gen accord (03 to 07). The v6 coupe or sedan with a 6 speed manual trans is a great buy. I have an 03 coupe with a auto trans. It has good power and sounds great with an aftermarket exhaust. 240 hp stock and honda reliabilityI have not had any problems with my trans but they have been know to be problematic. It has a great interior, led inst cluster, dual climate controls and a really good (imho) stock stereo. They also get great mileage, only require 87 octane. I have had no problems at all with my car in the snow (without snow tires). I put snow tires on this winter and was able to get up beaverton pass right before it closed...basically it is a great daily driver. It may not be the fastest, most pretty car out there but it sure is a good jack of all trades. Also look at the acura tl type s and acura tsx (only available with 4 cyl 2.4l which requires premium). Good luck on the car search and post up here with whatever you decide....

Also if you are interested the best part is the price. I found mine with 70k on the clock for 9500. All maintenance records and it also had a brand new(at the time) magnaflow exhaust.


Here is a old pic of mine.

[EVO8]

STI or EVO, can't go wrong with either. I've owned a WRX, EVO and STI. The EVO is the only one I'll personally keep. Just my opinion.

[chanke4252]

ghettoDSM, I Agree with your suggestion, kind of. I had an 06 accord 6mt, and it was one hell of a fun car. That motor is simply beautiful, and with the hfp setup and acura sways it handled really well. However, those cars are not like the old hondas. they have issues, nothing major with the powertrain, but I had a number of suspension and brake issues with mine. The car simply could not be aligned even on the stock suspension without ghetto rigging the front adjustments, and it would not hold the alignment it was given. They also eat brake rotors like nothing with the stock pads. Rotors every 10k gets expensive. It's an extremely common problem on the Accord and TSX of those years, not sure about the TL. I also had so many rattles in mine it was ridiculous. My wrx and jeeps had fewer rattles if that says anything. The more I dug into the car the more I realized why it was rattling, because the car is like 98% cheap plastic and double sided tape. Man was it painful to listen to driving on anything but glass smooth pavement. The powertrain was amazing, and the interior layout was very nice, but everything else was kind of a downer.

My buddy has a pre-refresh 7th gen accord with the 4cyl and mt, and it's a little better. but I won't buy another late MY Honda or toyota/subaru product till they stop trying to become GM circa 1998. It's too bad, because my 2000 4runner was the best vehicle I've ever owned.

[Ghettodsm]

ghettoDSM, I Agree with your suggestion, kind of. I had an 06 accord 6mt, and it was one hell of a fun car. That motor is simply beautiful, and with the hfp setup and acura sways it handled really well. However, those cars are not like the old hondas. they have issues, nothing major with the powertrain, but I had a number of suspension and brake issues with mine. The car simply could not be aligned even on the stock suspension without ghetto rigging the front adjustments, and it would not hold the alignment it was given. They also eat brake rotors like nothing with the stock pads. Rotors every 10k gets expensive. It's an extremely common problem on the Accord and TSX of those years, not sure about the TL. I also had so many rattles in mine it was ridiculous. My wrx and jeeps had fewer rattles if that says anything. The more I dug into the car the more I realized why it was rattling, because the car is like 98% cheap plastic and double sided tape. Man was it painful to listen to driving on anything but glass smooth pavement. The powertrain was amazing, and the interior layout was very nice, but everything else was kind of a downer.

My buddy has a pre-refresh 7th gen accord with the 4cyl and mt, and it's a little better. but I won't buy another late MY Honda or toyota/subaru product till they stop trying to become GM circa 1998. It's too bad, because my 2000 4runner was the best vehicle I've ever owned.

maybe you just have bad luck with vehicles lol?

Brakes are an issue, figured out why, cheap thin rotors made of recycled newspaper and very hard biting semi metallic pads (stock) do not mix.

A pair of 100 brembo rotors and ebc pads fixed this though... all together less in parts than honda oem crap.

Suspension - i have not had a problem aligning the vehicle however i have stock suspension. I have heard even with the hfp suspension that only lowers it 1" you have to get at the very least adjust rear camber kit.

As far as interior rattle, made of plastic? Not sure what you mean? Mine is whisper quite with radio off. The interior might not be VAG(ina) quality but it is imho of good quality and seems to be tight as a drum. My ex's r32 had a great interior until the window clip broke off, radio shorted out and both heater elements burned holes in the seats lol. No offense but you could not give me a VAG product (and this is from someone who is a vw enthusiast - has had several mk1 rabbits, mk2, vr6 products, etc). Back on topic, o/p go drive all that you can. I drove everything in my price range and decided on the 7g accord (which alot of my friends don't understand - especially since i sold the evo mr). It is nice to have minimal car insurance/payment and all the other financial responsibility that comes with owning a car.

[asp_125]

I've driven VAG(ina) products in the past and they will nickle and dime you to death in maintenance. My Audi would easily be $400 each time to visit my mechanic for simple things like switches and instrument bulbs going out, and boost leaks and such. The motors are rock solid, easily going 200K+, but I got tired of the niggly stuff wearing out like power window and sunroof motors, locks, water pumps etc.

I've driven Scoobys and a STOCK WRX or LGT that hasn't been in the hands of a boy racer is pretty stout. The kids are modding them to pump out 300+ Hp at the wheels so no wonder the drivetrains are going to grenade and the brakes are going to go. I've driven a couple of modded LGT wagons that will turn lap times within 80% of a Z06 at PPIR.

[Mother Goose]

Legacy GT.

[Ricky]

I have a 2008 Evo X MR, and while it's a really fun car, I don't really care for it as a DD. I tend to push it a bit, so I get horrible gas mileage. It's not quiet, it's not comfortable, it's not loaded with gadgets, it doesn't ride nice. It out corners most anything, and will out accelerate the vast majority of cars out there, but that's only so much fun when you can have a far nicer car that is a bit more tame, for a little bit more money.

It's very nice inside... Nav, leather, good stereo. Just a rough ride on Colorado streets. The one thing I don't like, is all the attention it gets me. Everyone and their mom has a wrx/sti, but the Evo's are a bit more rare, and some people tend to freak out about it sometimes. Not my thing.

That said, I'm getting out of the Evo as soon as I possibly can. Love driving it, but I want something a bit nicer, and a bit less apt to getting me into trouble.

[asp_125]

That's what the car magazines have said, the EVO is more racous boy racer while the STi is more refined GT. Both are great cars but as a DD you need to decide if the harsh ride and single purpose is something you can live with. Much like using a sportbike as a daily commuter.

[bulldog]

I've become a fan of Barn's Mazda 6speed. Turbo, AWD, comfy, luxurious, 4 door, not sport flashy like Evo's. I would consider getting one as a DD.

Think they don't make new ones though....

[Swift]

everything aside, i would get a 3 series bmw. i work at a performance shop that specializes in bmw (we also work on tons of suby/evos and other sports cars) and they are great cars. they have horrible resale which is good because you could pick up a super clean low mile example for not that much money. when maintained properly they are pretty rock solid and part prices actually arent that unreasonable. most of our shop caged road racing bmws are 100k plus miles with minimal motor work. we work on a clients x5 thats sitting in amazing shape at 240k miles.

oh we also specialize in VAG cars and i would avoid them like the plague

This guy is 100% on the money.

[Ghettodsm]

This guy is 100% on the money.

have you had any problems with yours? vanos solenoid, switches and little stuff breaking, etc?

Really like the xi. I love the 335 power delivery of the 6cyl turbo.

[Mojojojo]

Thanks for the input.. Definitely checking out some 3 series, the prices are all over the place, but awd (w/xi), a little bit of go and looks nice... I've been thumbing thru forums.. looks like there are coolant issues and things on a few years, but nothing that looked to complicated to upgrade/redu.. and tons of info out there..

On the thought of EVOs, not to worried about a harsh ride, I actually prefer snappy w/control over not feeling a few bumps any day.. just me though.. but looking, something nice (actually do like the EVO X body) is $$$ for one most places that has hope of not being hammered on too much

Didn't know there was a awd speed 6.. interesting thought too.. I'll definitely post up what I get, or am looking at anyway- thanks for all the feedback!