So you're saying we should introduce all their men folk to a bunch of hot young hookers with scorching cases of herpes?
So you're saying we should introduce all their men folk to a bunch of hot young hookers with scorching cases of herpes?
Last edited by Snowman; Wed Mar 2nd, 2011 at 12:30 PM.
MRA Racer No.427
No, I'd say it's the exact opposite. I'm not saying all Christians feel that way, I'm saying that most of the people I've seen that feel that way, are Christians, Catholics, or some other sort of strict religion. Do all religious nuts feel that way? No, but the two items seem to go hand in hand quite well.Originally Posted by MetaLord 9
I'm not saying that a church needs to allow marriage of two gay guys. I'm just pointing out that the answer is CLEARLY "NO". Even though people say that religious people are tolerant, loving, and all that, they still won't treat a person as equal because they are gay. A Christian can say to me all he wants that they don't discriminate against gay people. When I ask them if my boyfriend and I can get married in their church, I'm met with resistance and overall disgust. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
It doesn't matter if I'm talking about gay marriage or a faggot bake sale. A christian/catholic church isn't going to allow a bunch of flaming homos to stand out front of their church and sell delicious baked goods all while looking "absolutely fabulous" doing it. Unless of course, it's a gay church.
2008 Honda CBR600RR - Graffiti
2002 Yamaha WR250F
I wonder how they'd feel if a bunch of patriot guards picketed one of their funerals.
When life throws you curves, aim for the apex
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Someone would have to murder one of them first...
2008 Honda CBR600RR - Graffiti
2002 Yamaha WR250F
If I say I'm a biker, but have never seen a bike, don't own one, and don't know how to ride, am I still a biker?
If you believe you are a biker than yes you are in you own mind, and nothing I can say will change your mind.
Anything that is a matter of faith you can't question when there are no facts to support ether argument.
Last edited by Snowman; Wed Mar 2nd, 2011 at 02:39 PM.
MRA Racer No.427
The PGR is better than that.
This ruling is bullshit though. There has got to be something with them disturbing the peace. Don't get me wrong, I love America, but the fact this is more or less being allowed is ludicrous.
-Greg
2013 BMW R1200GS
I'm not sure if you're intending it to, but what you're saying is coming off a little anti-Christian. if that's what you mean then, fine, that's your opinion just know that this is how it's being interpreted.No, I'd say it's the exact opposite. I'm not saying all Christians feel that way, I'm saying that most of the people I've seen that feel that way, are Christians, Catholics, or some other sort of strict religion. Do all religious nuts feel that way? No, but the two items seem to go hand in hand quite well.
I'm not saying that a church needs to allow marriage of two gay guys. I'm just pointing out that the answer is CLEARLY "NO". Even though people say that religious people are tolerant, loving, and all that, they still won't treat a person as equal because they are gay. A Christian can say to me all he wants that they don't discriminate against gay people. When I ask them if my boyfriend and I can get married in their church, I'm met with resistance and overall disgust. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
It doesn't matter if I'm talking about gay marriage or a faggot bake sale. A christian/catholic church isn't going to allow a bunch of flaming homos to stand out front of their church and sell delicious baked goods all while looking "absolutely fabulous" doing it. Unless of course, it's a gay church.
My point is that tolerance isn't acceptance and it the two really shouldn't be confused. We all tolerate lots of things we don't like/believe in/condone/want to participate in and that's ok. You don't have to accept and welcome everything from everyone. Trust me, I'm not coming from any particular side on this one. It sounds like you had a shitty experience and that really sucks, it really does. Unfortunately for anyone who has a similar experience to your own, it's a two way street. They can tolerate homosexual lifestyles without condoning or believing in them just like people living those lifestyles can tolerate the church's general dislike, but getting upset at the church for not accepting those lifestyles is to not accept their beliefs and practices.
[SIGPIC][SIGPIC]
Nicely put, MetaLord.
In addition, the actual true "church" as the earthly body of Christ, does indeed accept homosexuals (as well as thieves, deviants, murderers, et al.) as people. Their ACTIONS and CHOICES, however, are NOT accepted. Now it's true that the Church as a whole has not always done a good job of "loving the sinner" while "hating the sin", but that really is the goal, and a biblical mandate.
You're gay? Then by all means, come to our church. You want to openly practice your gayness? Well then friend, we're gonna have a problem. Same with murderers, adulterers, fornicators, liars, etc. Sin is sin. But the sinner is most certainly welcome as you are...just don't expect to openly CONTINUE in that sin and have that sin accepted.
As for Westboro...they are vomitous. And those responsible for this ruling aren't much better, 1st Amendment or no.
For the record, this is the point at which the conversation comes off the rails.
Wookie, out.
[SIGPIC][SIGPIC]
On a rare occasion, one of my troops would get diarrhea of the mouth and then try to claim that he had freedom of speech. It's at this time that I explained to him that his freedom of speech did not exclude him from any repercussions. Sometimes this is a hard lesson to learn.
My point is that they are welcome to their thoughts and beliefs. My problem is the timing and location that they choose to be vocal about them. Just ask the Patriot Guard Riders their opinion on the subject. Here's a quick reference, just in case you don't know >LINK<
www.onthemarcphotography.com
Denninger had a good take on this subject this morning:
http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=181409
The last line is awesome.
Dirk
Formerly MRA #211 - High Precision Racing
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self- preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."
--Thomas Jefferson
I can think of nothing better than *nobody* showing up to their funeral. What they do to others is worthy of the PG showing up in force at those events, however beyond that they aren't worth the gas to drive to Topeka. Most of us will be happier when they just fade away.
Westboro is the pimple on the ass of humanity, however you're both pretty far off the mark I'm afraid. The ruling was 100% in keeping with the ideals of America. The only thing being upheld is their Constitutional RIGHT to speak their opinion. The fact that the vast majority of the country disagrees with them is absolutely irrelevant. Those responsible for the ruling IMO did the correct thing - their job is not to dictate what's proper or correct, but what the boundaries of the law are and whether these people extended beyond that. They *did not*, and no matter how much their opinions and speech infuriate every one of us there is no double standard. If the USSC rules they must be censored simply because of the offensive content they spew, we may as well just take the Constitution out onto Pennsylvania Ave and light it on fire. Those rights extend to all citizens, period.
Regarding disturbing the peace, that is a local misdemeanor at best, and has *nothing* to do with first amendment rights. The court ruled that their speech was protected, as it is. If they actually disturb the peace according to whatever local ordinances are in effect wherever they happen to be, the local police can arrest them or ticket them. However those cops cannot enforce what they can or cannot say.
Westboro can eat a dick as far as I'm concerned. But the same thing that allows me to say that, allows them to say their opinions, and that is something sacred and beyond the sensitivities of you, I, or any Supreme Court judge.
Asshole Nazi devil moderator out to get each and every one of you
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous
than sincere ignorance
and conscientious stupidity.
- Martin Luther King, Jr.
disce quasi semper victurus vive quasi cras moriturus
The return of MRA #321! Sponsored by Western Ambulance, Chicane Trackdays, and a very patient wife...
I believe in karma and these a$$holes will get what is coming to them..but just in case for some reason it doesn't I say we protest at each and one of their funerals when they die! That'll make them turn in their graves! Hahaha
That I’m afraid might be exactly what they are wanting.
It's obvious a large part of their motivation to protest is the attention the are getting. They probably see this as spreading their gospel of god out to those that they see as sinners. And I'm sure the leader of these people is on some self evolved ego trip.
Giving them negative attention only drives their desire to be martyrs. Just like those Christan's that were killed for their beliefs by the Romans, they want to be persecuted for their cause.
What needs to happen is to counter their protest with the truth and leave it at that. Taking them to court or protesting their funerals just make us like them and gives them what they want the most, to die for their god.
MRA Racer No.427
Some of the most pious people I know, will be the first one's going straight to hell.
"Keep that "what if" thought in the back of your mind; it's the angel on your shoulder balancing the devil in your right hand."
"There are many things in life that will catch your eye, but only a few will catch your heart...pursue those."
2005 SV650S Street
I don't think anything outsiders do or say will deter them. These people are crackpots who are not reading the material they claim to represent. They are so looney they won't even listen to reason presented to them by Christians using the Bible they claim to follow. You just have to write them off and pay no attention to them.
I'm all for them protesting or doing whatever they want to do legally in another setting, but being able to legally protest at a funeral is bullshit, military or not.
This. The more attention they garner the happier they are. The more people yelling back at them and getting riled up the bigger their dicks get. I remember I was in class back in college and this girl was putting out some information regarding a counter protest to the WBC. That is exactly what you should not do. The best thing to "counter" their protests is to totally ignore them. In fact, on the PGR forums you're not even supposed to mention the WBC.
-Greg
2013 BMW R1200GS
It is bullshit, which is why a lot of states have set up what effectively amounts to a temporary restraining order surrounding funerals to keep them away (which I am fully for). However that isn't the issue - they were being challenged on their very right to say their opinions simply because they're assholes. While what they say offends me to the core, I will support their right to say it. Funerals are not pulpits and I do think they should be afforded a certain decree of sanctity, but you can't take it any farther than that without slapping American values and beliefs in the face.
Asshole Nazi devil moderator out to get each and every one of you
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous
than sincere ignorance
and conscientious stupidity.
- Martin Luther King, Jr.
disce quasi semper victurus vive quasi cras moriturus
The return of MRA #321! Sponsored by Western Ambulance, Chicane Trackdays, and a very patient wife...
..
Last edited by modette99; Mon Nov 7th, 2011 at 05:09 PM.
..
Last edited by modette99; Mon Nov 7th, 2011 at 05:10 PM.
This section of the ruling probably has some bearing on that hypothetical:
and this from the CNN article:Roberts in his opinion noted the Snyder family was not a "captive audience" to the protests that were conducted several hundred yards away.
"Westboro stayed well away from the memorial service," wrote Roberts. "Snyder could see no more than the tops of the signs when driving to the funeral. And there is no indication that the picketing itself in any way interfered with the funeral itself."
DirkThe Supreme Court has never addressed the specific issue of laws designed to protect the "sanctity and dignity of memorial and funeral services," as well as the privacy of family and friends of the deceased. But the high court has recognized the state's interest in protecting people from unwanted protests or communications while in their homes.
Formerly MRA #211 - High Precision Racing
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self- preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."
--Thomas Jefferson
Freedom of speech has always had limits. You can't say things that endanger people, for example. Saying "I'm going to kill you." is quite different from saying "God hates fags." like these idiots do. One is a threat. The other is debate.
Dirk
Formerly MRA #211 - High Precision Racing
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self- preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."
--Thomas Jefferson
reminds me of an old joke...
Man gets pulled over by cop and has an attitude. Cop throws attitude back along with a speeding ticket.
Man asks cop, "Can I get in trouble for calling you an asshole?"
Cop, "Yes"
Man, "Can I get in trouble for thinking you're an asshole?"
Cop, "No"
Man shouts at the top of his lungs, "I THINK you're an asshole!!!"
Do not put off living the life you dream of. Next year may never come. If we are always waiting for something to change...
Retirement, the kids to leave home, the weather or the economy, that's not living. That's waiting!
Waiting will only leaves us with unrealized dreams and empty wishes.
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