Motorcycle Oil VS. Automotive oil

[biikChiQ]

Has anyone used automotive car oil on a motorcycle?

I was watching a video about someone doing an oil change on their bike and they used automotive oil. They mentioned that using automotive oil is exactly the same as motorcycle oil and that the only difference between these oils is that motorcycle prices are just too expensive.

But from this article, it mentions that car oil messes up the clutch.
http://www.husqvarnaoutlet.com/the_t...automotive_oil

[asp_125]

Automotive oils have friction modifiers that wreak havoc with wet clutches. No no.. stay away!!

[Ghost]

Bunch of threads here and on most bike forums I'm on or have been on ask this question.

You'll get every possible answer, and I know some people who run auto or even truck oil in their bikes.

But, for my bike, I only ever run moto-only (synthetic) oils.

If it's saving $3 who cares? Bikes aren't cheap, they're hobbies--and, as such, are by definition a waste of money. So, by that light, you may as well dump the better and bike-specific oil into it.

[Wrider]

Agreed with Ghost.

You'll get guys who have run 100K miles with no clutch issues from automotive oil, and you'll get guys who ran automotive for the first time and within 100 miles their clutch was toast.

I prefer to play it safe and use motorcycle specific.

If you really wanna dump money into your bike, look at full synthetic motorcycle specific Royal Purple and Amsoil... $13+ per quart, and most bikes use around 3.5...

[stubbicatt]

Or get a bike with a dry clutch... Love that rattle rattle first thing in the morning. Although in my case, this only encourages use of those even more expensive motorcycle specific oils with the friction modifiers which will truly ruin a wet clutch.

Use what the manufacturer recommends and be happy.

[Bueller]

I used motorcycle oil a couple of times a long time ago.

[~Barn~]

Ah yes.... this thread. We were due!

:Waits for Rybo to come in and drop some knowledge:

[TinkerinWstuff]

they don't call it "friction modifiers" any longer. Now the carton is labeled "energy conserving"

same shit that fucks up clutches.

I use diesel oil in my bikes.

[dirkterrell]

Stay away from the energy conserving oils, change it regularly, and you'll be fine. I've run all brands of auto oils in my bikes for the better part of three decades and never had any issues.

The rating circle on the label tells you if it's energy conserving. If the bottom part of the circle is blank, you're good.

[TinkerinWstuff]

I vote we move on to tires

[rybo]

I vote we move on to tires

I like my tires like I like my.........tires. Black and round.

[rybo]

And for the guy named Barn who made a special request -

I love the oil debate......

Here is what I know as fact:

Not all oils are created equal

Not all synthetic oils are created equal

Not all bottles labled synthetic really are.

WHAT???!!??

Yep, it's true, not all bottles marked as full synthetic really are. In the late 80s-early 90s Mobil sued castrol over the latters use of "grade 3 base stock" as the starting point for their synthetic oil. Grade 3 stock is the best of the "dino" oil, but it is not a synthetic. Mobil lost the case because castrol claimed that "synthetic" referred to the process used and the addives included with the oil, not just the origins of the base stock. Since then all of the major car oil makers have used grade 3 base stocks for their car oil with the exceptions of Mobil and Amsoil.

Full synthetic motor oil (the real meal deal) has some serious advantages over the dino types. The biggest advantage is that every componenet can be engineered to meet the demands placed on the oil. Also, because it's an engineered product molecule size is consistent from drop to drop, bottle to bottle. This means as the engine heats and cools the oil remains consistent.

From real world experience: As I was growing up we had a 16' ski boat with a mercury outboard engine. This required 2 cycle oil and my dad always insisted on using syntetic oil in it. When the engine reached 5000 hours the service manual called for an overhaul and the replacement of the pistons. When we got it apart every piston measured well within the tolearance range specified as "new" even though they had 5K hours on them. This boat was run hard, pulling slalom skiiers most of the time it was on the water and the oil proved to be very effective. We didn't replace the pistons and ran it until we sold it with no issue.

Here is what I THINK, but don't know for sure.

Motorcycle specific oils are probably not worth the extra money. I would guess that a good portion of the motocycle specific brands are using group 3 base stock, just like the auto industry. Mobile 1 15W 50 works well in both v-twins and inlines and can be had for about $6 a bottle. Other weights in mobil 1 contain friction modifyers that may be bad for your clutch.

Amsoil is a darn good product at a reasonable price. They use the best synthetic base stocks available and their motorcycle specific oils sell for about the same as the mobil 1 listed above. They also offer filters for most bikes.

Changing your oil regularaly is really the key to long engine life. The oil is there to keep things moving and to get contaminants out of your engine. It only has so much capacity to do this. Changing it is the only way to maintain the capacity. I'm doing mine every 3K with a full synthetic. While this is a little expensive, I think it's cheap insurance.

[CaptGoodvibes]

I only use official Harley oil... even on my salad.

[BC14]

I only use official Harley oil... even on my salad.

[~Barn~]

I only use official Harley oil... even on my salad.

[TFOGGuys]

One thing to think about:

When the API specification for new car oils moved from SG to SH (and beyond), the amount of zinc diphosphate in the additive package dropped dramatically. Zinc acts in oils as an extreme pressure lubricant, helping to prevent galling/metal to metal contact on parts that do not receive direct pressure oiling (flat tappets in car engines, transmission gears in motorcycles, for instance). The zinc had to go because of federal mandates concerning the warranty on emissions controls, particularly rhodium/palladium catalysts, which are poisoned by zinc.

Use of car oils carrying the SH or later API spec can not only cause the aforementioned clutch issues, but in engines that are heavily loaded, can cause galling and pitting of transmission gears and shift forks.

Diesel oils still have sufficient amounts of zinc to provide adequate protection for the transmission, but may not have the correct chemistry to resist shearing at higher RPM.

Full synthetics are definitely the most effective lubricants, but may have some disadvantages in term of leakage and oil consumption, particularly in engines that are older or have very high mileage.

Ok...so that was more than one thing...

[Sean]

Diesel oils still have sufficient amounts of zinc to provide adequate protection for the transmission, but may not have the correct chemistry to resist shearing at higher RPM.

Jim, what if an engine isn't running high RPM's? ie: not a super sport. I've been running Rotella T6 in my 950 per the advice of the Orange Crush forum and it seems to be fine. Any thoughts?

[TFOGGuys]

Jim, what if an engine isn't running high RPM's? ie: not a super sport. I've been running Rotella T6 in my 950 per the advice of the Orange Crush forum and it seems to be fine. Any thoughts?

You should be fine. The issues seem to arise on large diameter plain (not roller or ball) bearings over about 10,000 rpm, in extended usage. Most street bikes will not see any problems. The problem is more about reduced oil life (viscosity breakdown) than any catastrophic failure. Accelerated wear can occur if oil change intervals are stretched.

[Sean]

You should be fine. The issues seem to arise on large diameter plain (not roller or ball) bearings over about 10,000 rpm, in extended usage. Most street bikes will not see any problems. The problem is more about reduced oil life (viscosity breakdown) than any catastrophic failure. Accelerated wear can occur if oil change intervals are stretched.

Thank you, sir. I didn't think there would be a problem, but it's nice to hear it from an expert. I would LOVE to stretch the oil change intervals (it's such a pita) but I can't do that to my bike. :thumb:

[TinkerinWstuff]

Dear Jim,

what if I didn't get my wife a valentine's day gift yet? She had a card waiting for me by the coffee pot this morning when I woke up. I told her I was waiting for Vday cards to go on clearance.

Sincerely,

Wanting in Windsor

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ free oil analysis test kits

[TFOGGuys]

Dear Jim,

what if I didn't get my wife a valentine's day gift yet? She had a card waiting for me by the coffee pot this morning when I woke up. I told her I was waiting for Vday cards to go on clearance.

Sincerely,

Wanting in Windsor

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ free oil analysis test kits

You are screwd. The only solution is the application of rare metals, crystaline minerals, and severed plant genitals.

[Slo]

Dear Jim,

what if I didn't get my wife a valentine's day gift yet? She had a card waiting for me by the coffee pot this morning when I woke up. I told her I was waiting for Vday cards to go on clearance.

Sincerely,

Wanting in Windsor

Haha....good stuff.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I only use official Harley oil... even on my salad.

That's easy enough I suppose.....just place the bowl of salad underneath the engine cases of a Hardley for a minute, and you should have all the oil you'd need.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

One thing to think about:

When the API specification for new car oils moved from SG to SH (and beyond), the amount of zinc diphosphate in the additive package dropped dramatically. Zinc acts in oils as an extreme pressure lubricant, helping to prevent galling/metal to metal contact on parts that do not receive direct pressure oiling (flat tappets in car engines, transmission gears in motorcycles, for instance). The zinc had to go because of federal mandates concerning the warranty on emissions controls, particularly rhodium/palladium catalysts, which are poisoned by zinc.

Use of car oils carrying the SH or later API spec can not only cause the aforementioned clutch issues, but in engines that are heavily loaded, can cause galling and pitting of transmission gears and shift forks.

Diesel oils still have sufficient amounts of zinc to provide adequate protection for the transmission, but may not have the correct chemistry to resist shearing at higher RPM.

Full synthetics are definitely the most effective lubricants, but may have some disadvantages in term of leakage and oil consumption, particularly in engines that are older or have very high mileage.

Ok...so that was more than one thing...

If I remember right, my '86 Gixxer 1100 and my current '01 Gixxer 1k specified an SF/SG rating. I looked at expensive synthetic oils that carried that rating, but then found Valvoline Max Life, for older cars, that if I remember correctly, carries that rating. It's a little more expensive than regular oils but a LOT less expensive then Amsoil or royal Purple, etc., and is all you'd ever need. It's even semi-synthetic now. I've used it for over 10 years now, and have over 58k on my stock clutch.