One of the reasons I don't vote... one of the reasons I don't care who wins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQnz0...YjQ&playnext=3
One of the reasons I don't vote... one of the reasons I don't care who wins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQnz0...YjQ&playnext=3
If you liked that, you'll LOVE THIS! Especially the RonPaul fans, if you weren't pissed off enough, lol. Republicans really fucked RP's supporters this year, more than ever!:
As the Republican convention-goers gather in Tampa, Florida, the Republican party Establishment is eager to crush any public expressions of dissent — both inside and outside the convention hall.
Inside, efforts are underway to make it impossible for delegates pledged to antiwar libertarian Ron Paul to place their candidate in nomination — an effort the Huffington Post deems a “defense” against Paulian “shenanigans.” Party rules say officially-recognized candidates must have pluralities of delegates in at least five states: however, at a recent Republican National Committee meeting, Texas committeeman John Ryder moved to increase the number of states to ten — just to make sure Paul doesn’t make the grade. Disdaining convention floor fights as “the residue of the 19th century,” Ryder averred it is time to “streamline” the process by which the GOP nominates its standard-bearer. Ryder claimed that he wanted to eliminate “distractions” at the Republican convention:
“Unless you’ve got a real contest, where you have two candidates or three candidates who actually have a mathematical chance of winning, then why do we want to go through the exercise?”
I have a better idea: since polls are showing Mitt Romney being soundly beaten by our incumbent President, why don’t’ we just dispense with these pesky elections — which are, after all, just part of the residue from the 18th century — and declare Barack Obama the winner? That way, we can save time, energy, and taxpayers’ money — because, after all, the taxpayers are footing the bill for Mitt’s coronation, just as they are for the Democrats. Think of it as a Republican budget-cutting plan — the Ryder plan.
To the Republican party Establishment — and much of the rank-and-file activists — political debate is a “distraction” from what really matters in politics, which is seizing power. As for the rules governing the political process — they can be changed at a moment’s notice, and bent any which way, in order to facilitate this seizure. Ron Paul’s supporters in the GOP learned that the hard way, as the Romneyites used their control of the party bureaucracy at the state and national levels to retroactively change the rules in order to unseat duly elected Paul delegates. In Maine, Massachusetts, Louisiana, Oregon, Oklahoma, and elsewhere, the party bosses have disenfranchised Paul voters — closing down party caucuses, rejecting as delegates anyone under 50, and calling the cops when all else failed. And while Ryder’s rule change failed — thanks to RNC’er Morton Blackwell — the Romney people did sneak in an amendment that would require delegates to state in writing who they intend to vote for on the convention floor at least one hour before the vote.
This is something not even the Communist Party of the Soviet Union required, and is unheard of even in Red China. The reason for the new rule is obvious: to alert the Romneyites to impending displays of public dissent. This will give them time to isolate the dissenters, strip them of their delegate credentials, and unceremoniously haul them out of the convention, preferably in handcuffs, while the cameras roll.
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If you genuinely did not care you would not have started this thread...just sayin.
Yes, it's easy to become frustrated & skeptical. But consider: If Bush had not become President, if the immediate capture of Bin Laden hadn't been botched, etc., etc., and if the US hadn't gone into Iraq without cause, etc., etc., the country might not be so much in debt right now due to the astronomical costs of the still-ongoing wars and might be in a better place economically right now. Of course, we'll never know, but that election in particular and all the national and international events leading up to today should be enough to convince reluctant voters that their voices might indeed make a difference down the road.
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________________
I see voting as an aspect and duty of American citizenship. People have died to ensure that right, people have fought (and died) to ensure that women, minorities, and other groups could enjoy the right to vote.
So, I think it's my duty to honor their efforts, and I will vote for the best candidate. It was never guaranteed that you could vote for your "favorite", or vote for whomever you'd like, but, you can vote and so while I don't see a perfect candidate, one is always preferable to the other, and so I will vote among the choices we've got instead of pouting and not voting in "protest" because my perfect candidate doesn't exist.
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
~Hunter S. Thompson
So should I mark you down for Romney then Ghost?
"If not us, who? If not now, when?"
Thank you daddy....Originally Posted by grim
Yeah, Paul got screwed but only because he didnt agree to Romneys terms and conditions. Romney is giving Donald Trump an open mike to spew awesomeness (probably not) but wanted to review Pauls among other requests.
I don't care who wins because both parties are the same... it does bother me however that these people are trying to sell us illusion of democracy... its depressing really. so, I just wanted to share that. you are free to think and feel however you want tho. you have the freedom!
Let him speak!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...vention-floor/
Fucking DonaldDuck Trump is one of the biggest douchebag braindonor clown shitbags I've witnessed in the last five years. Just wanted to throw my 2cents in, on that subject...
Last edited by Ghosty; Wed Aug 29th, 2012 at 11:33 AM.
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'08 Yamaha R1 (black), mostly stock. Past bikes: '98 VFR-800 (red), '01 CBR-929RR (white/red), '05 Yamaha R6 (white), '08 Yamaha R1 (blue).
'94 Supra Turbo 6spd. (black), BUILT motor/head, CompTurbo CT43-xx, '69 Dodge Coronet SuperBee tribute, 440/520 SixPack stroker, auto.
Al Gore won the popular vote in the 2000 election, but lost in the electoral college. So - sometimes it really doesn't matter if you vote or not.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore
How would you like to get roundhouse kicked with a motorcycle?
Why not....
[QUOTE=Zanatos;694921]Al Gore won the popular vote in the 2000 election, but lost in the electoral college. /QUOTE]
Right you are. But I still have to wonder if the outcome might still have been different if everybody who was able to did indeed vote rather than pass up the opportunity based on assumptions or predictions of outcome according to the press.
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________________
I think while all true, and I do vote, and think everyone should vote, the 3 party system the US was founded on, well it's old and tired, and weak. While I don't agree with the tea party, this is the best example of how the 3 party system is designed to work, and why it must be make in to a multi party system, that much of the rest of the current democratic world runs on. Groups like the tea party and supposed to be absorbed by the larger party, such as the republicans have brought them in to the fold by saying things that sound good to people that like the tea party, and thus the tea party is pretty much satiated, and they will vote for Romney, most likely, if they even vote, people that don't vote are, well they just give my vote more power, apparently that doesn't really factor in to their thought process, but if you don't vote you just multiply the people who do vote's power over your life. I love people that don't vote, and encourage anyone that even mildly disagrees with me to not vote, please don't vote. On the other hand a true multi party system gets people, NOT JUST THE FUCKING PRESIDENT, who represent everyone's actual views, not just two parties views, yes I know that pro wrestler was from a 3rd party, but people like that, the 1-2 of them at anyone time really just prove my point, there's only 1-2 of them at any one time if we are really lucky, and for some reason are insanely popular, and completely beat the system of twisted campaign finance rules where big coal and oil really pick our presidents while we mindlessly vote for one of two candidates, or nobody, like doing nothing ever changed anything..... If you want to change something start demanding a multi party system, and the eradication of the electoral college, EVEN IF they are the reason you got your choice in last time. But yeah, sitting at home in protest doing nothing, is actually the complete lack of a protest.
As for quotes from the founding fathers or people directly associated with the formation of the United states founding documents, I can pretty much find a quote from one or all saying pretty much whatever I want, except well obvious things like, how we should have a king or what not. However Pro or anti christian things, HELL YES, pro or anti war, yup, pro or anti slavery, well mostly pro, some anti, it goes on. I mean really we need to start making our own decisions, all the good ideas aren't from 300 years ago, I don't even know anyone from that time, and I doubt you have ever met someone either, unless time travel was created and I've been missing out. So really, in the era of well even CARS, or telephones, machine guns, nukes, I think we have different issues now that we did back then. It always feels good to find some dead guy that did something really amazing with their lives, and post up some quote, even in context, but that's just like masturbation really, it feels good, but does nothing.
Last edited by laspariahs; Tue Aug 28th, 2012 at 08:50 PM.
Lesser of Two Evils Rule would prevent me from voting for someone so clearly on the side of Plutocratic Theocratic Corptocracy, and I believe that individuals, not governments ought to decide whether to have an abortion or not--especially in cases of rape--so...probably not voting Romney...So should I mark you down for Romney then Ghost?
@las: Don't get me wrong, I wish we had a true and viable multi-party system, I'm no fan of the Kang or Kodos system, but we're stuck with what we've got...which is the current bipolar and largely pseudo-different "two party" system...
Given the massive machines both parties are, I doubt we'll ever see real third parties that are viable competition--it's why the Tea Party is Republican, if they were fully independent they'd never be anything but a marginal party on the fringes of politics. They had to co-opt the Republican platform to push their agenda mainstream.
Last edited by Ghost; Tue Aug 28th, 2012 at 09:01 PM.
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
~Hunter S. Thompson
Well with actual campaign finance reform there is no reason why a multi party system couldn't work with other parties winning a lot of spots in the house/senate or even the presidency, money wins elections, flat out. You are correct though with out that, the two parties we have now would still reign supreme over us as they currently do. We all know marketing works right? Well who you vote for is little more than a marketing campaign. If pepsi out spends coke, people will buy a lot more pepsi.
And we'll never see real finance reform since both parties know that it'd open the door to more competition. So...unless third parties can get in and change things, nothing will change, and since third parties can't get in and don't have the marketing to get in...
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
~Hunter S. Thompson
Yawn. Same old shit different thread. Just vote ad be dissappointed already.
I wanted to through my shoe...Fucking DonaldDuck Trump is one of the biggest douchebag braindonor clown shitbags I've witnessed in the last five years. Just wanted to through my 2cents in, on that subject...
I don’t know, I kind of think we are in the process of seeing the death of the two party system. With the Tea Party as radicalized as it has become on the right, the “Regan” republicans are becoming frustrated with having to vote for people that have more and more in common with the Tabian.
The current republican candidates have become so frightened of losing primary elections that they will pander to the most radical of the right in order to get their votes. And because these people are so radicalized, they are the ones voting and not the others.
The more centrist republicans, the ones that believe is a common sense government not a non existent one, keeping social programs that work instead of having everyone fend for themselves, financial responsibility, not that if you are poor it means to you ether too lazy or too stupid to be rich, the freedom to choose how you want to live your life and not religiously dictated mandates, are giving up and not voting anymore.
So what choice is that going to leave these disconnected republicans?
My advice is to vote and take your party back, by writing in who you think would do the job the way you believe it should be done. Yes this person or persons will not get elected, however if the elections results were posted to be 51% Democrat, 20% Republican and 29% Other, what do you think would happen?
MRA Racer No.427
Yeah, that's my biggest beef with the Republican party: the rise of the religious absolutists. The Founders warned us against the dangers of mixing government and religion. Goldwater had it right:
andMark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
Looking at the numbers, I've concluded that we have roughly 1/6 hard left radicals, 1/3 left centrists, 1/3 right centrists and 1/6 right radicals, and it's the radicals driving both parties. Seems to me that a sensible centrist ought to do well in a general election, but your are dead on about how the primaries select against them. Until the "silent majority" wakes up, we'll continue to get the radicals.On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.
I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?
And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."
Last edited by dirkterrell; Wed Aug 29th, 2012 at 09:10 AM.
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"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self- preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means."
--Thomas Jefferson
+1 .. the marxist communists on the Dems side, and bible punching radicals on the Reps. I'm taking my hockey puck and going home to Canada.
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Thing is, we don't need to go as far back as the Founders, check out the 1956 Republican Party Platform:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/08...arty-platform/
Direct link:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/45561520/1...Party-Platform
So, in a mere 50 years we've gone from a fairly "progressive" Republican party to a radicalized regressive-religious platform that panders to the Tea Party extremists over "common sense" and core constituents.Equal work for Equal Pay? Federalized education standards? Expanded unions? Trust-busting and anti-monopoly laws? Elimination of racism and sexism? Strengthened Social Security and a national health care plan?
If this were the party running today, the Democrats would be unable to stop them. This is a plan of a powerful voice, one of real populism, one of the people. Rather than running away from society, it embraced it, and sought to rectify the malaise of society. This is the party which would, in a year’s time, send the National Guard in to open up the schools to all students, black or white. This is the party which stood for all Americans, which took on corporate greed and said with one voice, “NO!” This is the party of Theodore Roosevelt; of Abraham Lincoln.
For the convention itself, the usual political speeches were present, including former president Hoover and previous hopeful Dewey. But among them also was Nat King Cole, noted singer and not the face one would expect among the GOP today. For today’s GOP they grabbed Lynyrd Skynyrd and the Oak Ridge Boys. The 1956 convention was a celebration, a stance for progress, fighting against the regressive and racist elements of society.
The Republican party of today would shame these great men. And I am ashamed that they have soiled the name which once stood for equality for all people. They fought for all; worker or farmer, all were welcome at the table of prosperity, and no one was left behind. The Republicans of today are but a shadow of their former glory; now they’re Republi-can’ts. They tasted power and it corrupted them to their cores.
So, on this eve of convention, remind ourselves of the great history of the Republican party, and the corruption and decadence which has removed them from greatness.
What has the Tea Party "accomplished"?
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/07...-accomplished/
And who were the greatest Republicans?
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/08...sidents-video/
From the Teddy Roosevelt “Square Deal” to Richard Nixon’s “Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan,” Republicans have been at the forefront of progressive ideas. Whether it’s labor rights, women’s rights, civil rights or economic fairness, it has been progressive Republicans who led the way. Even the “conservative” Ronald Reagan was very progressive in his policies, raising taxes more times than his three immediate predecessors did combined and engaging in compromised solutions brokered with the Democratic House Speaker, Tip O’Neill. Progressivism and Republicanism are one and the same.
Forged in the blood soaked fields of the Civil War, Republicans grew to understand that only by pushing the envelope, by progressing this nation forward, could the country become a world power. It was the Republicans which oversaw the application of the Hamiltonian-era economic policies which the Democratic and Whig Parties had been fleeing from for several years, which resulted in the United States going from the worlds 8th largest economy to the worlds largest within 20 years. It was the Republicans which implemented the income tax and the estate tax. It was the Republicans who created the Interstate Highway System. It was the Republicans who created NASA. It was the Republicans who created the Panama Canal. It was the Republicans who freed the slaves. It was even the Republicans who wrote the original bill upon which President Obama created the Affordable Care Act, now called Obamacare.
The Progressive Republicans are not gone, but they are endangered. The radicals of the Tea Party and corporate oligarchs continue to drain their party dry, using the party name in the same way in which a tapeworm consumes its host. If they cannot take back their party, it will become a relic of history, a shameful end to the party of Lincoln.
Last edited by Ghost; Wed Aug 29th, 2012 at 10:44 AM.
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
~Hunter S. Thompson
Marxist communist...hard left radicals...you guys crack me up. There hasn't been a "left wing" politician on the national stage in 40 years.
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