Students file complaint against CU for campus gun ban

[DavidofColorado]

I have no issue with CCW --- just check your fuckin gun at the door when you step foot on a campus of higher education. We have a state funded campus police force that can handle most any threat.

That is the reason I think this rule needs to be changed. You tell the innocent to disarm and learn how to be good marxist college students. But are you going to be as tough if something really bad happens? I think you are going to run away and hide unarmed and scared shitless.

Another thing about the school shootings that no one wants to bring up is the amount of time it takes for the police to get the place locked down. VT they came to a distubance and left and some time later came back to set up a perimeter. Same thing with Columbine, one of the teachers bleed to death before the police entered the building.

I don't want to be cornered in a class room with a criminal while the police set up shop out side. Not knowing if he is going to kill me or worse have to listen about why he's doing all this shit. I would like shoot him and go let the poor soul rest than let people die because people didn't want me to carry on campus. Why, because they seen to many college party films.

For the most part I think that College student will have to work hard and be mature or they will flunk out. And at 21 they are legally of age to do it no matter what you think. I support that decision as long as they don't fuck it up.

[Sortarican]

Wrong, she is a former cop who was known by the church as a carrying member. She made the call to have extra security on site. She is NOT on the payroll,......

How is what I said in any way "wrong"?
Just because she wasn't paid doesn't mean she wasn't there in an official capacity, she was.

Also,
You might want to calm down in your statements a little if you expect anyone to take what you say seriously.
Shouting down anyone that disagrees with you is completely defeating the rationally expressed portions of your opinions.
But hey, that's your call. If you want to be dismissed as just another gun nutt, flame on.
(Just remember, David of Denver was here first.)

[Speedwagon]

I guess you could say that....or I could say you are naive. I've been robbed twice in three months in the "nice" sections of town. You tell me how you think I've formed my opinion. Many of my friends live up in the Broadmoor Bluffs section of town....one was just abducted while he was shoveling snow and forced to tie up his wife and go to the ATM yesterday.
Five major robberies in Upper Skyway along with mine. No amount of insurance money can return what I've lost.
Yep....and my opinion of society is getting a whole lot lower everyday as crime is getting closer and closer to my doorstep. Might I purchase a gun?....probably....but still not on a college campus and certainly not brought to my classroom.

So you are saying that a police officer, off duty, attending college, is not responsible enough to CCW while on a college campus? You seem to have drawn a very finite line in the sand, that would include off duty officers. Off duty officer might need to leave at any time for an emergency, and it'd sure be nice if they were actually ready to go to that emergency. And if you say no weapons on campus at all, that would mean the officer couldn't leave such a weapon in his vehicle, either. You have just disarmed the person you trust to protect you, and this person can no longer provide said protection.

One could argue the point that those robberies could have been prevented by a CCW person in the immediate area. Removing guns from those that are properly trained to use them doesn't help anyone.

As Metalord said, if you think those that have them aren't properly trained, your issue is not with where they can carry, but who can carry.

[Pandora-11]

So you are saying that a police officer, off duty, attending college, is not responsible enough to CCW while on a college campus? You seem to have drawn a very finite line in the sand, that would include off duty officers. Off duty officer might need to leave at any time for an emergency, and it'd sure be nice if they were actually ready to go to that emergency. And if you say no weapons on campus at all, that would mean the officer couldn't leave such a weapon in his vehicle, either. You have just disarmed the person you trust to protect you, and this person can no longer provide said protection.

One could argue the point that those robberies could have been prevented by a CCW person in the immediate area. Removing guns from those that are properly trained to use them doesn't help anyone.

As Metalord said, if you think those that have them aren't properly trained, your issue is not with where they can carry, but who can carry.

Actually, I don't have a problem with police officers ever taking off their guns....the question in my mind may very well be who gets them....you're right.

[wulf]

I have a 19 year freshman on the CU campus (although she lives in a condo off campus). I do not want the general population carrying weapons. They are not ready for this kind of action. Immaturity and drunken parties is a recipe for disaster!
I want the police and security to protect the students, not other students.

So what do you think of some irresponsible places like the Marine Corps? i mean they don't just give them pistols, they give them machine guns!

Most people don't realize that the average gun owner here on CSC shoots more each year than the average cop.

[Pandora-11]

So what do you think of some irresponsible places like the Marine Corps? i mean they don't just give them pistols, they give them machine guns!

I know...it's frightening. Wish we didn't have to use our youth this way.

[wulf]

Pandora,

If you like poetry, listen to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u67l7EaJRU

You are a sheep. You fight against us, you dislike what we do, but when truly needed like the lady in the church security team, we spring up.

There are several cases of deranged gunman who were stopped by normal people with the sheepdog mentality.


Most take the opportunity to point out my nickname at this point which is part of a different analogy

"Men cannot be governed and remain men. Domesticate the wolf and he changes both physically and mentally. His muzzle shrinks, his teeth diminish, he loses size, speed, and strength, He grows spots. His ears flop. His brain withers. He becomes a dog. Men are on the verge of becoming dogs -- the changes are underway already -- unless we do something to stop it." L. Neil Smith

[PROFLYER]

How is what I said in any way "wrong"?
Just because she wasn't paid doesn't mean she wasn't there in an official capacity, she was.

Also,
You might want to calm down in your statements a little if you expect anyone to take what you say seriously.
Shouting down anyone that disagrees with you is completely defeating the rationally expressed portions of your opinions.
But hey, that's your call. If you want to be dismissed as just another gun nutt, flame on.
(Just remember, David of Denver was here first.)

You said she was hired armed security which is incorrect.

I don't downplay shit, I don't have to. I don't care if all of you think I'm an asshole who's pompous and arrogant. I've made this part of my life and leave the house each day knowing what responsibility I accept. Those who know me know I'm someone they can count on and who is honest to a fault. Hopefully I'll get to know some of you over the years and I'll hope you'll take me for who I am.

Tenure on a forum carries no weight, gimme a break.

Mcvaaah, I didn't say you were anti gun. Your comments, however, are anti-system and it's the system we all get to play within and live with. At 21 you can do so many things, getting a CCW as a good citizen is one of them. Prior convictions for DUI's, felonies, domestic violence etc. and you're denied. It's a character test almost and the permit can be revoked at any time. Also, I never said I planned on stopping a massacre or looking for one. You seriously need to work on the reading thing, I'm pretty sure my last post read that I hope I NEVER HAVE TO USE MY GUN. That doesn't make me a gun nut, that makes me someone who has the balls to stand up for both myself and others if necessary. Unprovoked violent crime is huge on campus and in the world in general and your IGNORANCE of thinking that armed security works is b.s. and I hope you realize that. Go stroll around a campus and you'll see 2 cops sleeping in a parking lot. At 21 a responsible adult should be able to have the OPTION to possibly defend himself should it become necessary. Again, don't confuse my passion for a lack of maturity or my having a short fuse. You may "think" you're smarter, older, whatever but the only thing your resume has on mine is time, and its a few years anyway.

Whoever is was that has a daughter at CU should seriously talk to her about personal protection. It does not need to be a gun, but last time I checked girls were being assaulted in the streets with some alarming regularity!

Checking our guns at the door is not a decision I'd let any of you make for me. People with the drive to kill don't see a NO GUN sign and say "oh shit, I can't be here, that's breaking the law!"

A few of us who actually go to school have spoken, possibly the majority of you are too far removed and don't know what really can happen or you choose for some reason to put it out of sight out of mind. Your kids go there, so perhaps the idea of something happening is not a thought you want to entertain, but I guarantee you the parents who lost their kids ask themselves every day "what if?" What if students who were responsible and trained could carry? Would it have saved my daughters life? My sons? We have to embrace tragedy and choose to learn from it. I hope and pray that it NEVER EVER happens anywhere else, but we can all hope in one hand and shit in the other....

The cops are worthless and it is NOT their job to protect you (not bashing cops at all, but even they'll tell you it's not their job and it's impossible to do) it is their job to investigate crime, thus the reason we're allowed as a polity the option to defend ourselves.

If you can't swallow that, I hear Canada has free health care. If you allow yourself to be a victim you can not be your own hero.

[McVaaahhh]

Mcvaaah, I didn't say you were anti gun. Your comments, however, are anti-system and it's the system we all get to play within and live with. At 21 you can do so many things, getting a CCW as a good citizen is one of them. Prior convictions for DUI's, felonies, domestic violence etc. and you're denied. It's a character test almost and the permit can be revoked at any time. Also, I never said I planned on stopping a massacre or looking for one. You seriously need to work on the reading thing, I'm pretty sure my last post read that I hope I NEVER HAVE TO USE MY GUN. That doesn't make me a gun nut, that makes me someone who has the balls to stand up for both myself and others if necessary. Unprovoked violent crime is huge on campus and in the world in general and your IGNORANCE of thinking that armed security works is b.s. and I hope you realize that. Go stroll around a campus and you'll see 2 cops sleeping in a parking lot. At 21 a responsible adult should be able to have the OPTION to possibly defend himself should it become necessary. Again, don't confuse my passion for a lack of maturity or my having a short fuse. You may "think" you're smarter, older, whatever but the only thing your resume has on mine is time, and its a few years anyway.

So, you're saying that I SHOULD believe in the CCW system that because I SHOULD NOT believe in the system (campus police, regular police, and other security) that exists to protect me? Why would I trust one government "system" over any other. They all have their holes and flaws and we as a people need to force our elected officials to make the changes necessary to fix the system (whatever it may be). The shooter at VT is a perfect example. He legally purchased fire-arms and then went on a rampage, that particular system obviously didn't work there.

Passion is a wonderful thing and I'm glad you have it. However, there's a fine line between coming off as passionate and coming off as just an asshole with opinion. When you start slinging insults and talking down to people because their opinion differs from yours is when people start leaning towards the latter. Maybe you do need a few more years/experiences on your resume to learn that, but you seem intelligent enough that I feel like you'll get it.

Age does not make maturity. Yes you can get a CCW at 21 and if you meet the minimum requirements and want one, please by all means, go and get one. I just say leave the gun at home when you come to the library on campus because the majority of college students (read 18-22 yr olds) IMHO can't handle it. I did not say all, and there are plenty of 50 yr olds that are too immature to own, much less concealed carry a firearm. Unfortunately the qualifications can't weed out the dumb/immature ones.

It's really like getting your drivers license. Just because you're old enough and passed all your tests and whatnot does not make you a great driver. And ALL of us know exactly what I mean by that.

[Pandora-11]

Pandora,

If you like poetry, listen to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u67l7EaJRU

You are a sheep. You fight against us, you dislike what we do, but when truly needed like the lady in the church security team, we spring up.

There are several cases of deranged gunman who were stopped by normal people with the sheepdog mentality.


Most take the opportunity to point out my nickname at this point which is part of a different analogy

You're missing my point...I'm certainly NOT a sheep. I'm an instructor...I just don't want guns in the classroom... but I'm pro-gun. If someone came into my classroom, I'm prepared to take a bullet for one of my kids....
How does this make me a sheep? because I disagree with you?
Lovely poetry. Do you do haiku?

[wulf]

Sheep are at most willing to react, not be proactive. Taking a bullet is reacting, killing the mother fucker shooting unarmed people is a proactive solution.

I'd be happier if all teachers and students who had the proper knowledge/training to use guns would carry them on their person.

I fucking hate poetry to be honest, but the point is the same.

[Mental]

...I think you are going to run away and hide unarmed and scared shitless...

Sheep are at most willing to react, not be proactive. Taking a bullet is reacting, killing the mother fucker shooting unarmed people is a proactive solution...

OK, by definition, killing a guy who is shooting peaple is also a reactive action. Proactive would be finding a person who planning on doing that and neutralizing them.

I do believe in CCW and the right to bear arms. I like guns and have two. I do not like the NRA. But I will not be called a coward or sheep because I have decided the best way to defend my home is two big dogs and a baseball bat and becuase I choose to defend myself by other means.

Firearms are A solution, they are not THE solution. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

If you choose to carry, good. If you accept the resposibility and training to operate that device, good. I am glad you do, and I am glad you can. But equating peaple who choose not as weak does nothing to help the image that you are trying to compensate for something. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, you are re-enforcing a sterotype.

[DavidofColorado]

How is what I said in any way "wrong"?
Just because she wasn't paid doesn't mean she wasn't there in an official capacity, she was.

Also,
You might want to calm down in your statements a little if you expect anyone to take what you say seriously.
Shouting down anyone that disagrees with you is completely defeating the rationally expressed portions of your opinions.
But hey, that's your call. If you want to be dismissed as just another gun nutt, flame on.
(Just remember, David of Denver was here first.)

You shut your whore mouth!!

[DavidofColorado]

I know...it's frightening. Wish we didn't have to use our youth this way.

Its not frightening. And the youth do their duty and never once take the time to feel sorry for themselves. I can't believe that they protect the rights of those that spit in their faces and never think twice about it.

I am a little less disciplined.

[wulf]

OK, by definition, killing a guy who is shooting peaple is also a reactive action. Proactive would be finding a person who planning on doing that and neutralizing them.

I do believe in CCW and the right to bear arms. I like guns and have two. I do not like the NRA. But I will not be called a coward or sheep because I have decided the best way to defend my home is two big dogs and a baseball bat and becuase I choose to defend myself by other means.

Firearms are A solution, they are not THE solution. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

If you choose to carry, good. If you accept the resposibility and training to operate that device, good. I am glad you do, and I am glad you can. But equating peaple who choose not as weak does nothing to help the image that you are trying to compensate for something. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, you are re-enforcing a sterotype.

True that they are both reactions.

Sometimes the best solution is to run the fuck away. None of that is a cowardly action, armed with a gun or not. I am not calling those who choose not to fight a coward, i am calling them a sheep (in an analogy). I am calling those who choose to fight in the defense of others sheepdogs (in an analogy).

Taking a bullet is more of a motherly protective instinct than a defensive reaction.

[DavidofColorado]

OK, by definition, killing a guy who is shooting peaple is also a reactive action. Proactive would be finding a person who planning on doing that and neutralizing them.

I do believe in CCW and the right to bear arms. I like guns and have two. I do not like the NRA. But I will not be called a coward or sheep because I have decided the best way to defend my home is two big dogs and a baseball bat and becuase I choose to defend myself by other means.

Firearms are A solution, they are not THE solution. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

If you choose to carry, good. If you accept the resposibility and training to operate that device, good. I am glad you do, and I am glad you can. But equating peaple who choose not as weak does nothing to help the image that you are trying to compensate for something. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, you are re-enforcing a sterotype.

I don't have a problem with anything that you are saying. I think you are onto something. You are not weak for not liking the NRA either. But if you don't like guns and you force others to not have guns by cheapening the right by calling us names then you are acting sheepish. I don't buy guns to add inches either, that is what my motorcycle is for.lol I knew a girl once... oh nevermind about her fetish with guns.

But which is it? Do you have 2 guns or 2 dogs a baseball bat?

Respect my rights to defend myself and I won't let you down. I think that is the jist of what all the gun owning community is saying. You shouldn't fear us anymore that you do a cop.

Being proactive according to your link means to me carrying a gun in case its needed and having it available. Not searching for trouble and neutralizing it. The police can't even do that. Better safe than sorry IMHO.

[Mental]

I own two guns. I do not use them for home defense, they are unloaded and locked away with the ammunition in a seperate location. For home defense I have a pair of very loyal dogs who will alert me long before anyone even gets to an entrance in my house. Its is a known statictic that the presnse of dogs, much less barking dogs, will deter the majority of criminals.

Once dogs are barking, I can be prepared with said bat and 911. I don't have to worry about the bat ending up lodging bullets in my neighbors home, at the range I would be using it, it will probably be lethal, and it becomes even more effective if I am in a panic. I also don't have to worry about it being stolen and ending up in the hands of criminals

I do think most gun owners want their right and want to be left alone, but I object to the inference that since I don't carry, I am sheep. This is the same analogy to the woman in the SUV. "Oh, I am so much safer becuase I am wrapped in more steel than your motorcycle."

This is somewhat true, but I have awareness, training, braking, manuverability, and acceleration in my favor. And while your SUV might be safer, your sense of superior prepardness is now a threat to me. I don't think most gun owners are that way, but there are enough.

How many peaple do you know that use a large caliber handgun for home defense? "Oh I am safer than you, I have a .357" That might be somewhat true, but that .357 is now a threat to my family sleeping three houses away. Because of my dogs, the bad guys went there instead and this guy wakes up, in a panic without all of their senses engaged and starts squeezing rounds in bad lighting. Guess where those bullets go?

Now I am not saying you guys are those kind of peaple, but the mentality of "I have a gun, I am a protector, you do not have a gun, you are sheep" creates more of them, and as educated gun enthusiasts, you know I am right.

I can understand the passion behind protecting your right to carry, but don't confuse those who do not use a firearm with those who oppose your right to do so. That is the same as them accusing you of being just like the madmen and criminals who use firearms for evil, simply becuase you legally posess the same tool.

There have been several inferences in this and other discussions that those without guns will cower and run and that we are somehow less aware of the dangers of this world. If you look into the history of all those tragic events you hope to be prepared for, there are always stories of peaple who rushed to help, displayed a willingness to protect others and showed that bravery can be had without a gun. Those folks are not sheep and they aren't weak, those just chose a different path.

[utsv650]

i wear my helmet... and do keg stands... is that a conflict of interest

but i want to get my permit to ccw

[thatmofo]

Am I the only one that feels that school is in session after reading a Mental post?

[Pandora-11]

Am I the only one that feels that school is in session after reading a Mental post?

NO..he's brilliant!

[rforsythe]

Do you do haiku?

I have my bullets.
You have many bullets too.
Who will shoot them first?

[Devaclis]

Dark and lonely on a summer's night.
Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord.
Watchdog barking. Do he bite?
Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord.
Slip in his window. Break his neck.
Then his house I start to wreck.
Got no reason. What the heck?
Kill my landlord. Kill my landlord.
C-I-L my land lord

[rforsythe]

When in doubt, call this guy...

[Pandora-11]

I have my bullets.
You have many bullets too.
Who will shoot them first?

More hidden CSC talent!!

Now try iambic pentameter!