The Double Yellow Pass

[PharmerKyle]

A new-ish member raised the subject in another thread recently. Let's leave the names and behaviors out of this thread and, instead, have the conversation that the parties in question wished they had already started. Not everyone comes into this sport with full knowledge the rules we break or re-write. I hate to see anyone scared off without spending a few more words on the subject.

I remember my first group ride and the first few times I witnessed double yellow passes. I think I was equally astonished and remember feeling very wary of the riders I had met. It took a while for me to try again, but eventually I got it. I'd like to have an open and honest discussion about the double yellow line, its power over our minds, and what goes into the decision to override it.

So when you you cross over and pass?

When don't you cross over?

Has your skill set and opinion on passing changed since your first 5-10,000 miles?

[Sortarican]

This is a good subject to bring up.

This weekend was weird, I had half a dozen cars actually wave me past or slow down/pull over to allow a pass under double yellow.
Suprising to say the least.
In the past I've also had drivers get lethally pissed for passing them on one.

I know a lot of pretty safe riders who routinely do it.
Personally I try to be patient and wait for a legal pass, if for no other reason than avoiding tickets.
But if there's a decent line of sight, and the bike I'm on can easily make it, I will pass.
Face it, there's stretches of mountain roads that for one reason or another have no passing zones for miles.
So until people actually start pulling over when they have 20 cars backed up behind them even the cagers are going to occasionally pass on dbl ylw.

Just be careful when you do.

[asp_125]

When I started riding I was ignorant of the reasons why riders would do a double yellow pass. With accumulated mileage and experience, there are some valid situations where I would pass.

- single lane roads, with good sight lines and out of city limits.
- in the twisties after following slower than normal traffic ie motorhomes, slow cagers, or slow groups of riders
- after all other alternatives have been tried: waving them over, legitimate passing lanes or dotted lines.
- knowing there's a good section of road ahead and I'm following a Winnabego.

I won't pass on solid yellows if:
- conditions are sketchy
- I am already at a good pace, I am not at the track
- I know there will be passing zones ahead, I can wait a couple of minutes
- city limits and or LEO presence (that's a given)

Generally I will respect the solid yellow unless the slow cager or rider moves aside and waves me by.

[Nick_Ninja]

Sight distance is what dictates crossing the double yellow for me.

Sight distance includes:

• Traffic Conditions
• Road Conditions
• Cops

[King Nothing]

I have never passed on the double yellow. My bike is too slow.

[Sean]

+1 to all of the above.
If I can, I'll also take in to consideration who's in the car in front of me. I'll try and be extra careful around cars with kids. Chances are, the driver is going to be extra defensive and may get nervous with a bike shooting by. No need to put anyone else's life in jeopardy.

[jimwallace]

i will pass on a double yellow when it is clear. that simple. doubles are set based on the average distance needed for the average vehicle (aka car/truck) to pass. motorcycles can pass in a quarter the time/distance. so if its clear i pass. i figure if the person is going to get pissed about me passing they are going to get pissed about me riding on their tail the whole way down. this is all assuming i have an urge to pass. if i am in no hurry and just putzin along well then no worries.

[Player 2]

Sight distance is what dictates crossing the double yellow for me.

Sight distance includes:

• Traffic Conditions
• Road Conditions
• Cops

[tripledigits]

Good reasoning here on the double yellow pass. Double yellows seem to be set up for the slowest cars on the road, with many passing opportunities missed because of this.

To take this one step further, I will admit I have done a freeway shoulder pass one time. I was on I-70 in the mountains, and there was a fellow in the left lane pacing a slow car in the right lane. When the right lane car slowed, so did he. This went on for miles, with a gradual line building behind the roadblock. I could see this guy in the left lane looking in his rearview mirror, so I knew he wasn't just brain dead to the situation. After a few more miles of this, I reached my melting point and passed the moving roadblock on the right shoulder. As soon as I did this, the guy in the left lane took off and tried to catch me. I was laughing so hard I began to fog up my helmet. I was on a trip from Las Vegas to Denver, having picked up my Blackbird......

[*KEN*]

Make sure the car you're passing isn't about to make a left-hand turn...

[mtnairlover]

It freaked me out too, when I first started riding in groups to see people passing on the double-yellow. I don't think I started doing it with confidence until last year. With that said, I do it for all the reasons mentioned above. Here's reasons when I won't:

• sight distance -- when I can see a blind corner coming up and know that even with downshifting and going hard on the throttle won't get me past the vehicle without freaking out the cage driver and myself. This goes for upcoming hills of any height, as well.
• leading a group of fairly newer riders, or new-to-group-riding riders...unless, extenuating circumstances call for it, like a cager who seems to be completely oblivious to the world around him/her. In this instance, I'll stick out my arm when passing to let followers know it's ok to pass as well and will put my arm down immediately when I see any possible danger.

[bodhizafa]

"i will pass on a double yellow when it is clear. that simple." +1

Comes down to how confident I am at the time with the surroundings and who I'm with. I'm usually worried about riding like an ass in a group, peer pressure can be good. Still consider myself quite the newbie.

[PharmerKyle]

If I can, I'll also take in to consideration who's in the car in front of me. I'll try and be extra careful around cars with kids. Chances are, the driver is going to be extra defensive and may get nervous with a bike shooting by. No need to put anyone else's life in jeopardy.

That's a really good point. I'm not often behind them long enough to do this assessment, but I'll definitely pay more attention to this. I didn't notice any on Sat, but it has come up plenty on Trail Ridge Road rides.

Personally I try to be patient and wait for a legal pass, if for no other reason than avoiding tickets.

Tickets suck! This is a great reason not to do it, or at least, not get caught doing it.

It freaked me out too, when I first started riding in groups to see people passing on the double-yellow. I don't think I started doing it with confidence until last year.

This is what made me want to start the thread. I think this reaction is more the norm than the exception. In order for us to get people over that initial "shock" when they see it, we need to talk about it more openly. Again, I hate to see new, potentially good riders and club members get distressed over this and leave.

My wife and a few other riding acquaintances have made the conscious and determined choice to never pass over a double yellow. They don't hold anyone else up in doing so and often end up in back. I respect this and would hate myself forever for putting pressure on them to pass against their own judgement. Waiting for a conservative rider is much preferred over a post-crash recovery.

The follow up question comes from this idea.

Has anyone ever ridden slowly or refused to pass and NOT had the rest of the group wait for them?

If so, was this a CSC group ride?

I'm hinting at an obvious conclusion.

[sky_blue]

I won't pass on the double yellow. I wouldn't want a car to decide to pass me based on that diver's judgment, so I won't do the same thing to them. I know patience and courtesy aren't usually part of sportbike riding, but hey, that's just me.

[CaptGoodvibes]

I do it whenever I want to. Hard to say when that will be. I make sure I can see ahead and consider if the car I'm passing will be turning left. I don't do it if I'm only going to make it past two cars in a line of many... just not worth it.

[mtnairlover]

Has anyone ever ridden slowly or refused to pass and NOT had the rest of the group wait for them?

If so, was this a CSC group ride?

Nope, not here. People have always waited...always.

[PharmerKyle]

I won't pass on the double yellow. I wouldn't want a car to decide to pass me based on that diver's judgment, so I won't do the same thing to them. I know patience and courtesy aren't usually part of sportbike riding, but hey, that's just me.

I held on to this idea for years. I only passed cleanly for a long, long time. I had this notion that if I somehow rose above and set a good example, that everyone else would do the same. Drivers & riders both continued to let me down. I was screwing myself out of a good time in the name of an orphaned ideal.

Then I began to re-evaluate what I thought a "clean" pass was. I've seen passes made in legal passing lanes where the passed and oncoming cars both screamed "oh shit" and went for the shoulder because a rider didn't really execute the pass well. I've seen cagers overreact to clean passes simply because the bike was loud or was on them too abruptly.

It's impossible to judge whether a driver will react well to a pass. I realized that the only aspect of a pass that I'd hold myself responsible for was whether I could make it or not. The feelings of the passed are their problem, unless I made an error in execution. I've blown a few passes and had to abort a few times as well. I do feel bad about those. I've seen drivers get pissed at the most well planned and executed passes too. I don't feel bad about those.

This distinction probably makes me an "asshole" in some books. I suppose that's OK. I just got tired of making decisions based on other drivers' unknowns.

[firegixx600]

The double yellow pass is contraversial, but basically should only be attempted if you are an experienced rider. It sounds stupid that the more experienced you get, the more risks you take, but in actuallity when you know what you are doing, it isn't as dangerous. There are always risks taken, but when taken safely in my opinion is just fine. Illegal-yes, but still can be done safely by an "experienced" rider.

[DavidofColorado]

Fine have your open discussion without opinions you may not like. I guess that is what your original post was getting at but it seemed a little 1 sided so it wasn't all that open. My original statement stands.

[Nick_Ninja]

Was my original post not clear enough, Douchebag?

Go fuck around by yourself in "chat" if you just want to hear yourself type.

RIGHT ON PHARMER!!

[Nick_Ninja]

Fine have your open discussion without opinions you may not like. I guess that is what your original post was getting at but it seemed a little 1 sided so it wasn't all that open. My original statement stands.

You shouldn't pass period. Your tire is mounted on BACKWARDS. You have no idea who you're pissin' off here do you?

Oh ---- and you lie like a rug buddy. Your statement:

I never pass and I can't believe you guys would do such a thing.

Is bullshit. When I went to pass the boat two-up on Trail Ridge I heard that you decided to venture out there in passin land ----------- well after the allowable safe distance had been well used up by the other two bikes in front of you. Your discretion leaves a lot to be desired --- as clearly stated here in your posts.

[DavidofColorado]

You shouldn't pass period. Your tire is mounted on BACKWARDS. You have no idea who you're pissin' off here do you?

Was on backwards. And I was pissing on the guy who posted up in the other thread about how evil and dangerous everyone was and I let it go but I couldn't go on any longer and had to voice my opinion now since it wasn't going to die. And I am pretty sure that I am pissing off Kyle, you and chad when he reads this. But I'm sure a few others will follow... I knew some wouldn't like what I had to say though. But that is something I have gotten used to.

[Nick_Ninja]

Was on backwards. And I was pissing on the guy who posted up in the other thread about how evil and dangerous everyone was and I let it go but I couldn't go on any longer and had to voice my opinion now since it wasn't going to die. And I am pretty sure that I am pissing off Kyle, you and chad when he reads this. But I'm sure a few others will follow... I knew some wouldn't like what I had to say though. But that is something I have gotten used to.

Go back and read my edited response. And I stand by my statement as well

[DavidofColorado]

Is bullshit. When I went to pass the boat two-up on Trail Ridge I heard that you decided to venture out there in passin land ----------- well after the allowable safe distance had been well used up by the other two bikes in front of you. Your discretion leaves a lot to be desired --- as clearly stated here in your posts.

Never passed when it wasn't safe to do so. Anything you "HEAR" is up to you to believe if its true or embellished.

And I wasn't driving any less safe than you were.